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Old 10-09-2017, 12:23 PM
 
7,997 posts, read 10,380,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
How odd. I've never had a problem with a doctor prescribing a lower cost drug if asked.

What is the price difference between this drug that shows little effectiveness, and the standard treatment for Crohn's?
LDN has proven to be very effective for a large number of ailments. I know people who take it and it has been life-changing. I know some people who have taken it and not noticed much difference. Most studies say it is an effective anti-inflammatory.

Naltrexone has been around for a really long time. It has been traditionally used to help drug addicts. For that treatment, larger doses are needed (50mg). Back in the 1980s, a doctor in New York was doing early treatment of HIV/AIDS patients. Many of his patients were drug addicts. He gave those patients Naltrexone to help wean them off of drugs during treatment. What he discovered was that those patients who took Naltrexone responded much better to treatment. So he started researching it further and discovered it's anti-inflammatory properties. He eventually discovered that much lower doses (1-4mg) were just as effective for those applications.

Here's the thing, most doctors don't know enough about it to prescribe it. Why? Because no manufacturers are making LDN (low dose Naltrexone). Why aren't they making it? Because it's long since been generic and is not patent-able, so they can't make as much money off of it as a new drug. Guess where most doctors receive their information about drugs? The manufacturer. Since no one is manufacturing it, no one is making an effort to educate doctors. And guess who usually does most of the research on "new" drugs? You guessed it. But they're not going to do it if there's no money in it. Drug companies don't care if docs prescribe it or not. They would much rather they prescribe their "new" more lucrative medications. LDN currently has to be made by a compounding pharmacy by using the 50mg pills that are still being manufactured for drug addiction treatment.

I think if you do a little more research, you will find that LDN can be quite and effective treatment..

 
Old 10-09-2017, 12:27 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
14,891 posts, read 12,052,980 times
Reputation: 24682
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Why is it disingenuous for a doctor to prescribe a less expensive drug? Don't get that reasoning, everyone is screaming about the out of sky high drug prices. I hear that often and I experience it too and even in my little drugs which are inexpensive, they've gone up a lot.

I was talking to a friend yesterday who has been hit with too many health issues as she's aged and one is crohns and she didn't know about LDN so I sent her some links. She's have a hard time right now with the crohns, then I have a longtime friend who's lived with crohns for probably 40some yrs....



Also, for Mikala, when I posted this I meant to say for crohns and ms, but forgot the ms in the title. Please forgive me. LDN is used by both conditions.
Reading comprehension is your friend....

What I actually said was that it's disingenuous to suggest that doctors("For the most part" I think you said as an attempt at some kind of disclaimer) are reluctant, or plain don't prescribe cheaper drugs because they, or your favorite scapegoat, Big Pharma are more interested in their profits than they are the welfare of their patients. Just look at your posts #6 and #12 in this thread for examples and numerous others in other threads I'm not wasting my time to find. It's also not true, in my and others' experience doctors and their staff will work with patients to find drugs to treat conditions that will not break the bank, and will do what they can in the event a newer more expensive drug is prescribed to get the best price for the patient-including giving out samples when these are available. A patient might have to broach the subject with the provider in the event the meds represent a financial hardship, but from what I have seen the providers are responsive and will do what they can to help the patient.

As far as your hearing this "disingenuous" description from others regarding your comments about traditional medicine providers, I can't say I am surprised.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 01:01 PM
 
7,997 posts, read 10,380,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
Reading comprehension is your friend....

What I actually said was that it's disingenuous to suggest that doctors("For the most part" I think you said as an attempt at some kind of disclaimer) are reluctant, or plain don't prescribe cheaper drugs because they, or your favorite scapegoat, Big Pharma are more interested in their profits than they are the welfare of their patients. Just look at your posts #6 and #12 in this thread for examples and numerous others in other threads I'm not wasting my time to find. It's also not true, in my and others' experience doctors and their staff will work with patients to find drugs to treat conditions that will not break the bank, and will do what they can in the event a newer more expensive drug is prescribed to get the best price for the patient-including giving out samples when these are available. A patient might have to broach the subject with the provider in the event the meds represent a financial hardship, but from what I have seen the providers are responsive and will do what they can to help the patient.

As far as your hearing this "disingenuous" description from others regarding your comments about traditional medicine providers, I can't say I am surprised.
I will say that although this is true for MOST doctors, it's not true for all. I used to work for a doctor. He was being paid about $30,000 a year by Merck to do "educational seminars" for Vioxx, which has since been pulled off of the market. It was his first-line recommendation for EVERYONE (he was a occupational med doctor, so a lot of pain cases). A solid 90% of his patients were on Vioxx. If patients complained about negative side effects, he would dismiss them as unfounded and encourage them to keep taking it. Only if a patient truly, truly pitched a fit would he prescribe anything but Vioxx. It had absolutely nothing to do with the efficacy of Vioxx (Celexa had come on the market at about the same time) and everything to do with the $$$ he was getting paid by Merck to push it.

Again, not all doctors are like this, but I think it's naive to think that some aren't. In the case of LDN, I think most doctors just don't know enough about it to feel comfortable prescribing it or even know the proper dosing, etc. I don't believe that they think it's not effective, they just don't know about it.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Hawaii/Alabama
2,267 posts, read 4,110,019 times
Reputation: 6612
CarnivalGal~

Did you mean Celebrex instead of Celexa? Vioxx worked wonders for my arthritis pain and I was SOL when it was taken off the market since I am allergic to iodine/shellfish which Celebrex uses.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 01:56 PM
 
Location: on the wind
23,084 posts, read 18,469,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
I never have either. In fact, it's really disingenuous to suggest that docs won't prescribe medication because it's inexpensive, even if it's effective.
I don't recall my MDs prescribing the most expensive med over a generic unless there WAS no generic available. They usually volunteered this right up front. How did I know I was actually given a generic? I looked it up.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 02:28 PM
 
7,997 posts, read 10,380,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melaniej65 View Post
CarnivalGal~

Did you mean Celebrex instead of Celexa? Vioxx worked wonders for my arthritis pain and I was SOL when it was taken off the market since I am allergic to iodine/shellfish which Celebrex uses.
Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry!
 
Old 10-09-2017, 02:42 PM
 
7,997 posts, read 10,380,366 times
Reputation: 15007
Also, LDN is considered experimental, so insurance companies do not cover it. Because it has to be compounded, out of pocket cost can be more than an insurance co-pay. I know someone who uses it for MS, and she pays about $80 for a one-month supply. She also swears by it.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Southern California
29,267 posts, read 16,655,017 times
Reputation: 18903
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
Also, LDN is considered experimental, so insurance companies do not cover it. Because it has to be compounded, out of pocket cost can be more than an insurance co-pay. I know someone who uses it for MS, and she pays about $80 for a one-month supply. She also swears by it.
One area I read LDN has been around since 1963...so WHY do the mainstream MS MD's not use it..maybe it works too well, and other expensive drugs would not be used...ummmm

My sis used to talk about $25K for a one month MS drug. Skips pharmacy in FL was used by many I talked to over the years. I made my own solution as there are instructions how to do so.

So much has changed in favor of pharma and insurance companies in the healing world. Profits Profits Profits...

This subject reminds me of another "medicine" insurance won't pick up and push people to expensive fearful invasive surgeries,,,,maybe too because "they work" and we don't want some less expensive easy "medicine" to work.

It's pretty clear I don't trust the medical industry.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Southern California
29,267 posts, read 16,655,017 times
Reputation: 18903
Why do we need mountains of scientific studies to TRY these medicines that COULD help. How much science went into Vicks Salve and Ginger and Cayenne, Turmeric etc etc. These help a lot of people.

There are links of LDN doctors who believe in it and write scripts for it.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,436 posts, read 34,636,835 times
Reputation: 73585
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Why do we need mountains of scientific studies to TRY these medicines that COULD help. How much science went into Vicks Salve and Ginger and Cayenne, Turmeric etc etc. These help a lot of people.

There are links of LDN doctors who believe in it and write scripts for it.

That's how science works. Consistent, reproducible effects.

Vicks is just a counter irritant, it is a superficial feeling, I can do the same thing if I rub a chili on my hand. There are scientific studies on ginger and turmeric and a lot of things.

That's what doesn't seem to register with you - there are studies on most things and studies continue.

You can go on word of mouth but that is unreliable.

Like with my RA and fibro, one day it can hurt to the heavens and other days nothing. It does that on it's own. It could seem like whatever supplement I happened to take accomplished that, but it's not, it is the nature of the illness.
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