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Thanks for the comments-hoping for the best. Gentlearts, I don't envy you having the other knee to do. One wasn't horrible but I don't wish to to it again. Jaminhealth I hope your improves.
Exercise bike seems to be helping me. Got it last weekend, first day it was all I could do to get 10 turns on the pedals-still stiff and limited mobility. Next day 20, then 50, 100, 1/4 mile and 1/2 mile today. Really noticing my lack of strength-get really tired after about 1/2 day and look forward to naps at break.
Thanks for the comments-hoping for the best. Gentlearts, I don't envy you having the other knee to do. One wasn't horrible but I don't wish to to it again. Jaminhealth I hope your improves.
Exercise bike seems to be helping me. Got it last weekend, first day it was all I could do to get 10 turns on the pedals-still stiff and limited mobility. Next day 20, then 50, 100, 1/4 mile and 1/2 mile today. Really noticing my lack of strength-get really tired after about 1/2 day and look forward to naps at break.
Don't push it, cycle a little then rest and maybe even rest the next day. I don't live with knee replacement but a lot of stiffness from what I do live with..but a "little" cycling does help a lot. Otherwise, total freeze up...I may still do some Prolo injections next year...
Last edited by jaminhealth; 12-23-2018 at 04:31 PM..
OK, can someone tell me, what did/does the bone-on-bone pain feel like? I will turn 60 in a week and a half (New Year's Day 2019) -- I'm in generally good health BUT have had horrible knee pain in my left knee for a year and a half now. At times it FELT like it was getting better (i.e. it wasn't constant), but I was in Europe this past summer for a work trip and could not participate in some of the activities at the seminar I was attending in Paris (Paris is a GREAT city for walking -- and I simply could not do much of it, my knee was hurting so much). That felt like the last straw, that the pain could affect my quality of life this much -- but between work and several major house remodeling projects going on this past summer/fall (finally 90% DONE), I still did not go to the doctor. I kept thinking, "It'll get better, it'll get better, it'll get better." Aaaggghh.
OK, I HATE going to the doctor, I admit that, but even given that, I know I should have made more of an effort.
But as at least one of you said, you kind of get used to the pain -- i.e., it's your "new normal." The only way to give myself a "reality check" is to say, "Wait, what does your RIGHT KNEE feel like?" -- and that one is totally normal (OK, at least 90% normal). So when I realize THAT (again!), I really do understand that my left knee is not normal by any stretch of the imagination.
I THINK mine is at least partially the result of running on pavement for many years -- I went through horrible, very scary, incredibly devastating medical crap in 1997/1998 and the ONLY thing that kept me sane was running, but I completely overdid it and screwed up my knees royally. My right one pretty much healed, my left one has been bad off and on for years but NEVER anything like it's been for the past year and a half.
So YES, I will get this checked out this coming semester, for real.
Why I asked about the pain, though, is that I can't figure it out -- for me, it's a dull ache just about every minute of every day, but often, including at night, I have periods where it feels like I am being stabbed in the knee over and over with a needle or a knife -- it's just horrendous and a very different pain from the dull ache. So what the heck is going on? (Oh, I am at the point where I am woken up by my left knee throbbing in pain, often the stabbing kind, at least once every single night. And I still didn't go to the doctor. I'm an idiot about this stuff sometimes. )
I know you're (mostly) not doctors, and OP, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but this thread has really given me some encouragement (I subscribed to it months ago) so I'd like to know more about what the various pains feel like and what different types might mean, if some of you are willing to share.
And Gentlearts, thanks for starting this thread -- it's been very interesting.
I've told my story many times about my right knee and it's all WORSE from hip replacement in 2010, everything is connected.
I can bend my knee and walk but not great anymore. Plus I ended up with a staph infection a couple yrs ago, another story with this knee.
An MD on the radio who does Prolo and PRP and Stem cells says "as long as one can BEND the knee and walk there is cartilage there" He makes it sound like bone on bone is when one Cannot bend knee at all and hardly walk. Bone on bone is when knee is totally stiff out...
My poor knee started to moan and groan when I as 57 and I did a lot of dancing and exercising all my earlier life but NO running, and especially on pavement. I'm a little over 80 now and so fear TKR so I keep hobbling as I do, and will look at more Prolo next year.
So as I see it you have some choices: Go for knee replacement, live with it, or see a provider who does Prolo and PRP and Stem Cells. Sounds like you could be a candidate for Prolo or PRP. I believe this regenerative medicine is our future and we're only tapping it now.
Replacements can work, a tough surgery and hard rehab and many still have pain and stiffness down the years. I've been hearing a lot of minimally invasive replacements but don't know too much, you can also research that too. I take supps for joint issues and ibuprofen every 6 hrs with FOO d in stomach.
So it's a crap game and we roll the dice.
Last edited by jaminhealth; 12-23-2018 at 06:44 PM..
One more thing, my friend is 68 and both are knees are giving her issues, nothing like mine but she has not YET done the HA injections -- I did them years ago and they did nothing for me, but her doctor says there are some new products now in the HA injection area. so she plans to do them next year. She might get some relief for a while...that's another idea for you to consider..insurance works with these.
OK, can someone tell me, what did/does the bone-on-bone pain feel like? I will turn 60 in a week and a half (New Year's Day 2019) -- I'm in generally good health BUT have had horrible knee pain in my left knee for a year and a half now. At times it FELT like it was getting better (i.e. it wasn't constant), but I was in Europe this past summer for a work trip and could not participate in some of the activities at the seminar I was attending in Paris (Paris is a GREAT city for walking -- and I simply could not do much of it, my knee was hurting so much). That felt like the last straw, that the pain could affect my quality of life this much -- but between work and several major house remodeling projects going on this past summer/fall (finally 90% DONE), I still did not go to the doctor. I kept thinking, "It'll get better, it'll get better, it'll get better." Aaaggghh.
OK, I HATE going to the doctor, I admit that, but even given that, I know I should have made more of an effort.
But as at least one of you said, you kind of get used to the pain -- i.e., it's your "new normal." The only way to give myself a "reality check" is to say, "Wait, what does your RIGHT KNEE feel like?" -- and that one is totally normal (OK, at least 90% normal). So when I realize THAT (again!), I really do understand that my left knee is not normal by any stretch of the imagination.
I THINK mine is at least partially the result of running on pavement for many years -- I went through horrible, very scary, incredibly devastating medical crap in 1997/1998 and the ONLY thing that kept me sane was running, but I completely overdid it and screwed up my knees royally. My right one pretty much healed, my left one has been bad off and on for years but NEVER anything like it's been for the past year and a half.
So YES, I will get this checked out this coming semester, for real.
Why I asked about the pain, though, is that I can't figure it out -- for me, it's a dull ache just about every minute of every day, but often, including at night, I have periods where it feels like I am being stabbed in the knee over and over with a needle or a knife -- it's just horrendous and a very different pain from the dull ache. So what the heck is going on? (Oh, I am at the point where I am woken up by my left knee throbbing in pain, often the stabbing kind, at least once every single night. And I still didn't go to the doctor. I'm an idiot about this stuff sometimes. )
I know you're (mostly) not doctors, and OP, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but this thread has really given me some encouragement (I subscribed to it months ago) so I'd like to know more about what the various pains feel like and what different types might mean, if some of you are willing to share.
And Gentlearts, thanks for starting this thread -- it's been very interesting.
Your situation sounds similar to what I was dealing with. There was always pain (for the last few years), but most time maybe a 2-3. An annoyance, but not terrible. But other times it would be bad enough that I could barely walk-walking from my office to the restroom at work required a break. At the worst-sleeping was nearly impossible-no position didn't cause agony. The deciding point this year-the twisting to toss a leg over my motorcycle about brought tears to my eyes. Thankfully that was pretty intermittent. An x-ray will show the facts pretty affordably and quickly-there should be a good space between the bones of the joint. Mine had no gap on one side and some hard, white spots where the bones were grinding. FWIW, I'm 56. I suspect my issues were a combination of "wear and tear" and some issues related to various injuries over the years.
I will say that even after just 3 weeks, the pain is less than pre-surgery. Plenty of stiffness and a bit...unsteady, but no real pain. Better every day-today I popped a couple Acetophenone at 5:30 this morning, but nothing sense and no real pain. If it's as bad as you're saying, at least get it checked out. I put it off for several years-and really don't like going to a doctor. From the time I turned 20 till 50 I think I had seen a DR twice-for stitches. I hate to admit it-but over 50 listening to them is more important. Had a conversation with my doc about shots or a brace-but the thing is, that doesn't fix anything. It's like the suspension in your car. When a bushing is worn out, just squirting grease on it doesn't fix anything. It might stop some squeaking for a few days, but in the end-you need to go into the shop and get the worn parts replaced.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 12-23-2018 at 08:20 PM..
With age the gaps in knees narrow anyway. A friend who passed at 95 over a year ago claims taking glucosmine for 25 yrs kept her walking blocks until her heart gave out at 95. I've been faithful with glucosamine for the last couple yrs but not close to her 25 yrs. My parents lived into 90's and no replacements nor their siblings etc. but they did not beat their joints up like today at the gyms and running. Mom had OA issues but no replacements.
I've told my story many times about my right knee and it's all WORSE from hip replacement in 2010, everything is connected.
I can bend my knee and walk but not great anymore. Plus I ended up with a staph infection a couple yrs ago, another story with this knee.
An MD on the radio who does Prolo and PRP and Stem cells says "as long as one can BEND the knee and walk there is cartilage there" He makes it sound like bone on bone is when one Cannot bend knee at all and hardly walk. Bone on bone is when knee is totally stiff out...
My poor knee started to moan and groan when I as 57 and I did a lot of dancing and exercising all my earlier life but NO running, and especially on pavement. I'm a little over 80 now and so fear TKR so I keep hobbling as I do, and will look at more Prolo next year.
So as I see it you have some choices: Go for knee replacement, live with it, or see a provider who does Prolo and PRP and Stem Cells. Sounds like you could be a candidate for Prolo or PRP. I believe this regenerative medicine is our future and we're only tapping it now.
Replacements can work, a tough surgery and hard rehab and many still have pain and stiffness down the years. I've been hearing a lot of minimally invasive replacements but don't know too much, you can also research that too. I take supps for joint issues and ibuprofen every 6 hrs with FOO d in stomach.
So it's a crap game and we roll the dice.
That IS NOT what "bone on bone" arthritis means....it does not mean the knee "its totally stiff out"(whatever that means)
It means just what it sounds like, I mean how much more simple could it be???
Bone on bone means on x ray there is no longer any space between the bones...hence NO cartilage....hence bone on bone....
"As cartilage deteriorates, there is less cushioning between the ends of the bone that form the joint. The space between the ends of the bone decreases and the ends of the bone become closer to each other. When there is essentially no cartilage left, the bones rub against each other. The term bone-on-bone refers to the ends of the bones rubbing against each other." https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-...n-bone-2552133
Of course one can still "bend the knee" and "walk" with "bone on bone" arthritis....maybe not very well and very likely not without pain...but this idea that you keep propagating that "as long as one can bend the knee there is still cartilage there" is blatantly FALSE no matter how many times you repeat it....
When one has "bone on bone" arthritis and one is tired of the associated pain and other options have been exhausted then knee replacement surgery is a terrific option
IF one were to wait until the knee "was stiff out" knee replacement would no longer be an option....fusion would be the only option...
Replacements DO work (no "can" about it) the overwhelming majority of patients do NOT have pain and stiffness down the road...
Minimally invasive knee replacements are NO different than a "regular" knee replacement save for the smaller incision and greater technical difficulty in performing the operation. Hospital stays can be shorter, rehab is exactly the same as should be the long term results....
With age the gaps in knees narrow anyway. A friend who passed at 95 over a year ago claims taking glucosmine for 25 yrs kept her walking blocks until her heart gave out at 95. I've been faithful with glucosamine for the last couple yrs but not close to her 25 yrs. My parents lived into 90's and no replacements nor their siblings etc. but they did not beat their joints up like today at the gyms and running. Mom had OA issues but no replacements.
1. No the "gaps" in knees do not necessarily "narrow" with age because not everyone develops knee arthritis and THAT is what the "gaps narrowing" indicates....knee arthritis....
2. There is ZERO association with running and later need for knee replacement, in fact the exact OPPOSITE is true as study after study has shown distance running to be "joint protective". Another myth that you keep attempting to propagate with no evidence to support it
"One of the most entrenched beliefs about running, at least among nonrunners, is that it causes arthritis and ruins knees. But a nifty new study finds that this idea is a myth and distance running is unlikely to contribute to the development of arthritis, precisely and paradoxically because it involves so much running." https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...nee-arthritis/
I had a total knee replacement 3 weeks ago today. Surgery was outpatient-I was released about 2 in the afternoon. Walking before I left (with a walker). Had to tackle a flight of stairs when I got home, which really wasn't a big deal.
I was given pain meds to take "as needed". Well the first day the nerve block was still effective and I didn't want to deal with side effects of opioids, so I only took a minimal amount. Once the nerve block wore off I discovered that was a bad idea! Took a few hours popping pills like Amy Wineheart to get it back on track, but in the big scheme of things, not a big deal. Started PT on day 5, back to work on day 11 (and driving). Now at the end of week 3 I'm walking without a cane at home (use it outside and at work due to longer distances). Spending time on the exercise bike. Pretty much off prescription pain killers (just Acetaminophen). Still stiff, but actual pain is pretty minimal. Range of motion right around 120 degrees. Gotta take the CPM machine back today-I'm going to miss it!
I'm really looking forward to taking some good, long walks again. Due to pain the last 2-3 years I was pretty restricted, and sadly also gained weight. Also looking forward to swinging a leg over the motorcycle without agony.
Great story and released that day: WOW/! I did stay about 36 hours but that was 4 years ago and even 4 years can make a difference. My story is similar to yours but being retired I didn't deal with going back to work. I hardly used my cane at all: found it more trouble than it was worth. I have seen others who use the cane for weeks. I did use my walker for about 3 weeks. As for pain meds, I kept them down to a minimum as well. Luckily my knee bending was unbelievably fast. I had almost complete use of my knee in just a few weeks. Even at my age I can get on my hands and knees and get back up again. Of course I have to use something to lean on in order to pull myself up. I do not make a habit of getting down on the floor, that is for sure.
Good luck with the rest of your recovery and enjoy taking long walks again soon. As for the second knew: i have to say I feel your pain: I an not going to have mine done but if i were under 80 I probably would. Ny niece is 65 and is about to have here second done. She had the first one done in Sept
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