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I am a person who believes in natural remedies. I know my beliefs are in the minority. I accept that.
I have read on these forums from people who believe in mainstream medicine that they also believe in such a thing as "age related medical conditions" (in other words, they believe diseases are more prevalent in the elderly simply as a factor of aging - I read this theory on a discussion about shingles).
Just for the record, I don't believe in age-related diseases (without other conditions being present).
So my question is for the folks who believe in mainstream medicine and traditional methods AND age related disease: If you are aware of a healthy elder who has no disease, and the person attributes their health to a supplement they've been taking (that evidently has no discernable negative side effects), why wouldn't you listen to the elderly person without disease? Why would you marginalize the opinions of that person?
it really doesn't matter if you believe in "age related disease" any more than if you believe "the earth orbits the sun" or that the "earth is flat"
Belief is independent of fact...
Age related disease is a fact that cannot be denied.
That doesn't mean "aging is a disease" it is not...it is a natural process
Diseases such as atherosclerotic disease, cancer, cataracts, arthritis, hypertension among others ALL become more prevalent as we age....the body wears out, joints wear out, vessels lose their elasticity, etc, etc..none of this is even debatable.
That doesn't mean these potential diseases effect everyone equally and unfortunately not even fairly based on health habits such as not smoking, eating right, exercising etc
The great equalizer in all of this is genetics and unfortunately you can choose not to smoke, drink, use drugs, eat healthy and exercise regularly but you can't choose your parents....
So you don't believe in age related disease?? Do you believe you are immortal?
Do you believe your "natural remedies" will allow you die to peacefully in your sleep at age 99 having never experienced "disease"? ( what exactly WOULD you die of if "age related disease is a myth?)
Nice fantasy....
As for the particular poster your thread is clearly referencing....
Said poster is not "without disease" in fact, has at least TWO of the "age related diseases" you don't believe in, takes anti hypertensives, recently spent a couple of months in rehab due to an infection and by her own accounts is essentially home bound...
I know plenty of 80 year olds in better shape than THAT
She also has made many references to her "long lived parents" neither of whom did anything special to gain that advantage....hence "genetics"
So knowing all that, ascribing the lack of "other" diseases to a magical "seed" seems kind of silly and illogical to me...
We are coming from different world views. You believe in certain "facts," which I would dispute (if I wanted to spend all of my time doing so, which I do not) - so suffice it to say that the "age related diseases" you quote I believe don't have to do with age, per se (in other words, they are not a natural consequence of aging).
If the diseases you mention were a natural consequence of aging, then everyone who ages would have those diseases, and that is not the case.
If you believe in age related diseases and someone who is 80 says "I take this supplement and don't have cancer" (for instance) - why would you not take that into account and try it? (I guess a more direct question would be: What have you got to lose in trying it?") What is your reason for not trying something that could be very helpful?
If you believe in age related diseases and someone who is 80 says "I take this supplement and don't have cancer" (for instance) - why would you not take that into account and try it? (I guess a more direct question would be: What have you got to lose in trying it?") What is your reason for not trying something that could be very helpful?
Money. If I tried every supplement just because someone said, "Hey, can't hurt, might help!" I would run out of money.
What is your reason for not trying something that could be very helpful?
Money. I have been taking anywhere from 7 to 10 supplements for about 6 months now and they are fairly expensive. My blood pressure is up, I don't know if that has to do with the magnesium I'm now taking. The bottle does say to check with your doctor before taking this, I didn't so maybe it's causing my bp to go up?
If the diseases you mention were a natural consequence of aging, then everyone who ages would have those diseases, and that is not the case.
And this is a completely false premise. Not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer. Not everyone who drinks to excess gets cirrhosis. Not everyone who takes a certain medication gets a given side effect. That doesn't mean conditions can't be linked to substances or behaviors.
Aging people do not all develop the same deleterious conditions, but they all develop SOME conditions due to aging. Unless you can show me a 90-year-old who is physically and mentally indistinguishable from a 20-year-old.
A person who tells me why he lived so long falls in the category of Anecdotal Evidence. It has the same value as if he told me he lived under a tinfoil pyramid.
We are coming from different world views. You believe in certain "facts," which I would dispute (if I wanted to spend all of my time doing so, which I do not) - so suffice it to say that the "age related diseases" you quote I believe don't have to do with age, per se (in other words, they are not a natural consequence of aging).
If the diseases you mention were a natural consequence of aging, then everyone who ages would have those diseases, and that is not the case.
If you believe in age related diseases and someone who is 80 says "I take this supplement and don't have cancer" (for instance) - why would you not take that into account and try it? (I guess a more direct question would be: What have you got to lose in trying it?") What is your reason for not trying something that could be very helpful?
In your "different world view" where "age related diseases don't exist"
What do people die of??
Do they die?
You could try to dispute the "facts" of age related diseases but you would fail...again its not debatable..
As for the need for everyone to develop these diseases for them to be truly "age related" that's not how biology works...
By age 80 70% of white Americans have cataracts......not age related??
Again if someone doesn't have cancer by age 80 and attributes it to eating Twinkies every day should I try that too??? Because what I have got to lose? Never mind there is no empirical evidence to prove it works? ( kind of like all the natural remedies you hold dear)
We are coming from different world views. You believe in certain "facts," which I would dispute (if I wanted to spend all of my time doing so, which I do not) - so suffice it to say that the "age related diseases" you quote I believe don't have to do with age, per se (in other words, they are not a natural consequence of aging).
If the diseases you mention were a natural consequence of aging, then everyone who ages would have those diseases, and that is not the case.
If you believe in age related diseases and someone who is 80 says "I take this supplement and don't have cancer" (for instance) - why would you not take that into account and try it? (I guess a more direct question would be: What have you got to lose in trying it?") What is your reason for not trying something that could be very helpful?
I am a little bit confused as to what you are getting at. As people get older, their bodies wear out and I would think that most parts of their bodies would tend to be weaker. They would be more prone to illness and injury.
I wouldn't call diseases like OA or shingles "natural consequences of aging" but they occur more often by far in the elderly. That doesn't mean "everyone who ages would have those diseases..." They are more susceptible to these diseases though.
If you are talking about supplements, a person only needs to take what they need. An older person can be tested to see what they need. Of course there are nutritional needs that we don't know about for certain, so some people could be onto some supplement that might be beneficial to them, or to some, or to all. We don't know.
I have always read true stories of people who lived to be 100 and there will always be someone who asks them their secret to longevity. It can be that they took a drink of wine every day, or they believed in God, or they had a happy outlook on life, or they ate a piece of candy every day. I don't think there is any magic bullet in these cases because I think that most of it is genetics.
My bit of evidence (not proof) is an aunt to lived to be 103. She was always active, she was not overweight, she was fun, she smoked for most of her life. When she got into her late 90s she did have to give up smoking due to breathing problems. But she never got cancer. She finally died after falling and breaking her hip. She didn't take supplements--she didn't need them. She must have had excellent genes. Oh--she ate oatmeal every morning for the last ten years of her life. But that doesn't mean that everyone who eats oatmeal will live to be 103--or that oatmeal will be of much benefit to anyone. It simply means that this person liked to eat oatmeal.
I am a little bit confused as to what you are getting at. As people get older, their bodies wear out and I would think that most parts of their bodies would tend to be weaker. They would be more prone to illness and injury.
I wouldn't call diseases like OA or shingles "natural consequences of aging" but they occur more often by far in the elderly. That doesn't mean "everyone who ages would have those diseases..." They are more susceptible to these diseases though.
If you are talking about supplements, a person only needs to take what they need. An older person can be tested to see what they need. Of course there are nutritional needs that we don't know about for certain, so some people could be onto some supplement that might be beneficial to them, or to some, or to all. We don't know.
I have always read true stories of people who lived to be 100 and there will always be someone who asks them their secret to longevity. It can be that they took a drink of wine every day, or they believed in God, or they had a happy outlook on life, or they ate a piece of candy every day. I don't think there is any magic bullet in these cases because I think that most of it is genetics.
My bit of evidence (not proof) is an aunt to lived to be 103. She was always active, she was not overweight, she was fun, she smoked for most of her life. When she got into her late 90s she did have to give up smoking due to breathing problems. But she never got cancer. She finally died after falling and breaking her hip. She didn't take supplements--she didn't need them. She must have had excellent genes. Oh--she ate oatmeal every morning for the last ten years of her life. But that doesn't mean that everyone who eats oatmeal will live to be 103--or that oatmeal will be of much benefit to anyone. It simply means that this person liked to eat oatmeal.
Exactly....most of what you referenced including the story about your aunt has to do with having "good genetics" which again trumps all.
Also like you stated OA and shingles aren't "natural consequences of aging" but they are by far more common in elderly patients which is what "age related diseases" means...
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