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Old 01-03-2020, 09:16 AM
Location: equator
4,456 posts, read 1,930,042 times
Reputation: 11331


Originally Posted by SanyBelle View Post
I'm not against it. I just don't understand it enough. Is doctor's pay low in your country?
I would guess pay is much lower. Many do weekend gigs off the books, for example. Primarily, there are no "middlemen" taking cuts all along the way. It's direct care from the hospital or doctor to the patient with nothing in between. No insurance companies...
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Old 01-05-2020, 08:16 PM
3,504 posts, read 2,441,364 times
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Originally Posted by orbiter View Post
Has anyone done a cost comparison of the various specific medical surgical procedures of the different states?
If a visit to the ER in the U.S. amounts to US$5,000, then local ER in Vancouver, B.C. for foreigners and non-residents is only C$1,015 per visit.

We also have Accredited non-Hospital Medical Surgical Facilities in British Columbia
Call them up for a price estimate.

That's why I always get travel insurance when outside the states it's well worth the few hundred bucks Especially if going to Mexico. Travel insurance covers Jet Ambulance back to the states.
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Old Yesterday, 02:45 PM
Status: "Happy New Year!" (set 5 days ago)
Location: Foot of the Rockies
88,600 posts, read 104,937,607 times
Reputation: 34122
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
Came across this article and could certainly relate. In Texas, I spent about 2 hours in the ER and had 2 bags of saline---that's it. Cost: over $5,000. Kidney stone was maybe 5 hours and billed for over $30,000.

Conversely, I spent 3 DAYS in the hospital down here (So. America) for my dislocated hip and paid:
ZERO. All was included in our $80 a month national plan (for us both).

I wonder if any of this can ever be addressed.

You got more than two bags of saline for your $5000. Do you nnot understand you got the services of skilled professionals as well, probably some labs (which were immediately available, no?) and other services. And later on you say, maybe the VAT tax pays part of the UHC in your country. And no income tax? No other taxes at all? Below:

Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
Because it is not "for profit" here. We do have a 12% VAT tax so maybe that plays into it. No other taxes though except for $45 property tax. After age 65, the VAT tax gets reimbursed. Also, no medical malpractice here, so that saves the doctors a lot and their medical school is not nearly so costly.

For those who can't afford the $80 charge, medical care is free.

I am so perplexed by the anti-UHC sentiment, when the whole rest of the world uses it.

Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
Insurance companies here exist to make a profit. Healthcare systems and hospitals here are also for-profit. Therein lies the problem. Every, single study has shown that universal healthcare actually costs countries LESS than the system the US has in place now. The US gov't pays more per person for healthcare than countries that provide healthcare for everyone. It also costs each person in those countries LESS in taxes for that care then we currently pay in premiums, cp-pays, deductibles, etc.


A couple months ago, I read an article in my hometown newspaper about how a certain healthcare system, which has a large presence there, saw profits go down. I was outraged. Why should a healthcare system be worried about profits?! And even though their profits went down, they still totaled over half a BILLION dollars. Do you have any idea how many people without insurance that could have helped?

The only reason our system still exists is because lawmakers are becoming rich(er) from it. Follow the money and you will see how much they make from insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc.
Not all health systems are for-profit. Kaiser and Mayo Clinic for example, are non-profit. 80% of non-federal hospitals are either non-profit or government (local, state, county, etc) run.
"Of these, 4,862 are considered community hospitals. Community hospitals represent about 85 percent of all hospitals in the U.S. There are 2,845 nonprofit community hospitals and 1,034 for-profit community hospitals. Additionally, 983 are owned by state or local (county, hospital district) government entities."

I've had my fill of conspiracies, thank you!

Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
The rest of Medicare is covered by the taxes on payroll. Moving to Medicare for all would require an increase in some sort of tax, but that's OK with me. Between me and my employer, insurance costs $1800 per month for a top notch plan. If it cost less than that for single payer, I would be OK with it.
I can guarantee it won't cost less. I support UHC because I think it's the right thing to do. I have no illusions, however, that it's going to cost less.

Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
Actually, every, single study has shown that what people pay in taxes to cover universal healthcare would actually be LESS than we pay now. So we would actually save money, and everyone would have coverage.
That reminds me of those old ads for long-distance phone service, after the break up of the phone companies but before cell phones with free LD. One went something like this:
Customer: I signed up for one of these low-cost long distance plans but my bill is the same as always.
Phone service: That's because they didn't tell you about this charge, that charge, another charge, etc.

So the per-minute charge from some companies was cheaper, but there were other extra charges. That's what I think would happen with UHC. We know people in the European social democracies pay high taxes.

Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
It's not just the insurance companies. Hospitals over bill too. Don't forget that they are for-profit businesses too. My SIL is an insurance lawyer (health insurance). I've had to have her call both insurance companies and hospitals to get things straightened out on more occasions than I can count. After my Dad died, we got a bill from the hospital that we knew was wrong. She had to get involved. They were over billing the insurance company by $30,000. The hospital insisted the bill was valid until a lawyer got involved, when suddenly they realized their "error."

Don't get me wrong, insurance companies are just as bad. She says they routinely deny claims without even looking at them because they hope people just won't pursue it.
Untrue. See my previous response to this.
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Old Today, 08:44 PM
575 posts, read 389,379 times
Reputation: 532
this country is horrible. up in canada they love their health care system. don't believe the lies they tell you down here .
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