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I was just listening to an ER doc on the radio and he said that once a person is on a ventilator from Covid-19, that person is basically critical and on life support with a very low chance of survival. I think he said ventilator patients in China only had a 1% survival rate.
I'm curious if there's any one here who's in the medical profession with knowledge on this...
Before a person gets to that worst case scenario, what are the ways medical staff supports a patient who's having trouble breathing? I've heard the term "intubated" is that when you get a breathing tube up your nose? I've also heard about people who are delirious with fever pulling tubes out etc. But I'm not clear when I hear these stories, which medical equipment are involved. Do people have the energy for that type of panic once they're in such a poor condition and in need of a ventilator? I'd guess/hope they'd be sedated before then.
Also if what this doctor is saying is true, the shortage of ventilators makes sense. In normal circumstances we wouldn't need a massive scale production of ventilators, and if we did, would it make sense if the chances of surviving are as low as this doctor claims? Not saying we shouldn't try to make more pronto, especially during this emergency and for younger patients, but many who are older have written directives or have told their loved ones that they don't want life support, or to be put on a ventilator.
being intubated is being put on a vent with an endotracheal tube in your trachea.
depending upon the situation it's possible patients would be sedated and/or paralyzed while on a vent.
if they are on a vent they will be in an ICU so yes, they are pretty sick. i can't comment on the data he cited from china because i don't have any context for it.
patients are supported with the vent, fluids, and depending upon any secondary issues, whatever is needed to support or treat those conditions. for instance if they get septic they'll be treated appropriately for sepsis.
frequently patients have ARDS or acute respiratory distress syndrome.
I've been wondering why they aren't just using oxygen instead of ventilators. When my chest filled with fluid due to afib, I got two chest tubes to drain the fluid by gravity over a week and was on oxygen in the hospital and on an oxygen concentrater at home for a few more months. My O2 concentration went from 87% to 97% over a period of about 4 months.
I've been wondering why they aren't just using oxygen instead of ventilators. When my chest filled with fluid due to afib, I got two chest tubes to drain the fluid by gravity over a week and was on oxygen in the hospital and on an oxygen concentrater at home for a few more months. My O2 concentration went from 87% to 97% over a period of about 4 months.
Some covid survivors who were not on ventilators report that for a while it was very difficult to breathe. Wouldn't using oxygen make it easier to breathe? One such patient who posted a youtube video said his O2 was 93% at the time he had difficulty breathing. Wouldn't using oxygen have raised his O2 and made him more comfortable?
Some covid survivors who were not on ventilators report that for a while it was very difficult to breathe. Wouldn't using oxygen make it easier to breathe? One such patient who posted a youtube video said his O2 was 93% at the time he had difficulty breathing. Wouldn't using oxygen have raised his O2 and made him more comfortable?
if you'd watch the vid i posted you'd understand why it might not in some cases and why some need a vent.
as always, it depends. less severe disease, maybe. more severe cases are going to need a vent.
I did watch the video. It didn't say anything about oxygen as an aid. No one in the news has either. All the preparedness, equipment, etc. I have heard, and not one word about oxygen. Naturally severe cases will need a vent. But on the video I saw the patient was offered a vent and he refused and survived without it. No one offered him oxygen. The present treatment seems to be a respirator or nothing. I understand that there are some studies stating O2 should not be given when the O2 concentration is 94% or higher. When I was in hospital nurses sometimes lowered my O2 down to 2 liters per minute, but I had them raise it to 3.5 l/m which made it easier for me to breathe. That's the setting I used for 3-4 months at home and it did me no harm. I have a friend with asbestosis who has been on O2 for 15 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old fed
if you'd watch the vid i posted you'd understand why it might not in some cases and why some need a vent.
as always, it depends. less severe disease, maybe. more severe cases are going to need a vent.
I recently read an account of a nurse who got covid and ended up on a respirator. She was terrified she would have to be put on a ventilator. She did finally get well. She was aware of her oxy levels with each intervention.
I've been wondering why they aren't just using oxygen instead of ventilators.
They do start with oxygen first. Patients ending up on ventilators are deteriorating despite being given oxygen. The ventilator is a last-ditch attempt to keep them from dying by buying some extra time to see if their lungs will ever heal.
Some covid survivors who were not on ventilators report that for a while it was very difficult to breathe. Wouldn't using oxygen make it easier to breathe? One such patient who posted a youtube video said his O2 was 93% at the time he had difficulty breathing. Wouldn't using oxygen have raised his O2 and made him more comfortable?
If someone is in such severe respiratory distress that intubation is necessary on a vent then no, O2 via nasal cannula is not going to be NEARLY enough and is essentially useless...
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