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This is dangerous thinking that can lead down a slippery slope quickly. The concept of "healthy life style" and "healthy choices" are fluid and mean different things to different people. My "healthy life style" may not be your "healthy life style". Who defines it? We are not all the same person with the same environment and the same challenges. You might say "We need to punish that person for smoking" and "we need to punish that person for eating a Big Mac with a large french fries" and "we need to punish that person for not getting out and walking every day" and "we need to punish that person for being sexually promiscuous". Where does it end? Fines? Imprisonment?
Interesting point. I have my vices- I will NOT give up my morning caffeine or the 2 oz. of scotch I drink every night. (Yes, I measure it. Alcohol abuse killed my ex-husband.) Having said that- I work out daily, am at a healthy weight, BP is on the low side of normal and at age 67 I'm on one prescription to deal with a symptom of menopause.
I'd prefer rewards rather than punishments although sometimes one can look like the other. (Is a discount on health insurance premiums for regular exercise a punishment to those who don't exercise?) A previous employer had a wellness program that gave us points for various things- regular workouts (measured by wearable devices), on-line classes in areas such as nutrition, smoking cessation (which they paid for) weight loss. When I left I had enough points to cash them in for Amazon credits and buy a new laptop.
Who's in charge of what "healthy" is?
I am 65, healthy most of my life, don't smoke, no risky behaviors, etc. But I still got a GI disease that requires RX.
From an early age I remember insurance tables showing that for my weight and height I was overweight. My whole life these tables made me feel bad. But I have never ever been overweight. I'm big like a farm girl but not fat. It's my Anglo Saxon showing lol. If insurance tables made me pay more I would been really angry but never got rated higher and paid my own insurance lifelong.
My great-grandfather lived to 96, smoking cigars. No diseases I ever heard of. Doing genealogy I found out he was a real hell-raiser, went on "fishing trips" so he could drink because his wife would not allow alcohol in the house. Good genes.
We all know lots of healthy habit people that die young and bad habit people that live on. Mick Jagger anyone?
I'll live my life and you live yours.
No responsibility to society at all, I even obey the speed limit 90% of the time.
Last edited by twinkletwinkle22; 04-02-2020 at 03:26 PM..
We are all in a situation where we are being asked to make personal sacrifices to protect the health of others. This begs the question: how much responsibility do we have to others to keep ourselves healthy? To live a lifestyle where we maintain a healthy weight, exercise, eat well, dont smoke, drink to excess, do damage with drugs, etc?
Illness and accidents can take out anyone at any time of course. Advanced age is also a factor. But what about preventable health issues? Do we have a social responsibility not to burden others with our costly care? Do you think attitudes will change due to this current crisis? Or do you believe that it's an entitlement to live whatever lifestyle you choose no matter what the cost? Do you think employers or others might start discriminating against those who have preventable health issues after this is all done?
I think this is great question. With insurance costs skyrocketing and morbid obesity out of control, I think of this often. Interestingly, they are saying that people with high BMIs and diabetics are experiencing the worst outcomes in the CV pandemic. Food for thought. Excuse the pun.
I'd venture to say that it will still come down to the individual. Think about all the classic health issues people have been lectured about. STDs, alcohol, drugs, smoking, weight control, flu, blah blah blah. For decades, even generations. Some people comply, others don't. There are those who won't follow advice no matter how badly they are "penalized" for their choice financially, professionally, socially, personally. Their reasons for refusing to do something that's good for them ranges across the board.
Agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demolitionman2
We are all in a situation where we are being asked to make personal sacrifices to protect the health of others. This begs the question: how much responsibility do we have to others to keep ourselves healthy? To live a lifestyle where we maintain a healthy weight, exercise, eat well, dont smoke, drink to excess, do damage with drugs, etc?
Illness and accidents can take out anyone at any time of course. Advanced age is also a factor. But what about preventable health issues? Do we have a social responsibility not to burden others with our costly care? Do you think attitudes will change due to this current crisis? Or do you believe that it's an entitlement to live whatever lifestyle you choose no matter what the cost? Do you think employers or others might start discriminating against those who have preventable health issues after this is all done?
This is dangerous thinking that can lead down a slippery slope quickly. The concept of "healthy life style" and "healthy choices" are fluid and mean different things to different people. My "healthy life style" may not be your "healthy life style". Who(m) defines it? We are not all the same person with the same environment and the same challenges. You might say "We need to punish that person for smoking" and "we need to punish that person for eating a Big Mac with a large french fries" and "we need to punish that person for not getting out and walking every day" and "we need to punish that person for being sexually promiscuous". Where does it end? Fines? Imprisonment? Special insurance classes? For making everyone act basically the way we want them to act? The way that's "good for them". Once this starts, it is not going to end. As far a me having to pay for your indulgences in your lifestyle when it comes to health care, welcome to socialism or "taking from the workers and giving to everyone else". Perhaps we can pass a clause in healthcare where we don't cover illnesses cause by bad lifestyle choices. But who(m) defines bad lifestyle choices in this instance? Are we trying to take care of everyone else or are we trying to control everyone else (care is a form of control). Perhaps we should each just take care of ourselves and model a healthy lifestyle for others to see.
Great post!
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Originally Posted by ndcairngorm
I think in this modern age that it all comes down to economics. We all expect good healthcare for ourselves and our loved ones. If someone acts selfishly and irresponsibly, he uses healthcare that we might need for ourselves. We are seeing this right now in people refusing to distance themselves from others "because I have a right to do what I want" and thus becoming part of the huge healthcare problem that we have right now.
If we live in a healthcare system that provides care for everyone, behaving irresponsibly can use up valuable $$ that might mean there was no care left if you needed it, or taxes would need to go up to provide it. If we live in a system that uses private insurance to provide healthcare, someone behaving irresponsibly in your particular insurer's pool of users can cause the costs to go up for everyone who uses that insurance company. Whether or not we have universal healthcare or not, the cost of care each year is divided by the pool using it and billed accordingly.
So it's in everyone's economic interest for people to stop behaving selfishly with their health. As far as how to determine what is a healthy lifestyle, as Demolitionman2 above asks, that's what we have doctors for. Right now doctors don't want to tell people they're too fat, etc., because their clients will just get angry and go to another doctor - again, all about economics. But somehow we have to get over that problem and find a way to bring all the bad actors into the system.
Another great post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by emotiioo
No "punishment " was mentioned at all. Not sure why you went down that road. But let's talk about cost. If you eat to excess for example, and get into the obese range, maybe your health care costs more than someone who doesn't and it's your responsibility to foot that bill. Maybe your food costs more if its junk and fast food. Maybe fruit and healthy snacks are conversely less expensive and exercise classes are free. Maybe you get a bonus for getting back to a healthy weight or the extra you spent on health care is returned to you.
If we live society and not on our own personal island its valid to question whether our fellow social beings are creating issues for others to clean up. There are mores and values at work. I think in light of what's happening in the world today these are valid thought exercises.
Yep.
Some thoughts.
I remember when I was about 20 I overheard my dad telling someone it was irresponsible not to have health insurance as it could cause a burden on others if one didn't. I always made sure I did because I didn't want to burden my family.
Food: The available food in this country is garbage. I make my husband go to regular store because if I go, all I want is junk. I do the Whole Foods runs. I can see why people eat a lot of garbage and are obese.
Health care costs: 20-30 years ago, when healthcare costs weren't so high, it wasn't as big a deal covering everyone. Now, it's a big deal. It's like 20-30 years ago, you could go to college and goof around for a while and 'find yourself' because if you didn't graduate in 4 years, it wasn't a huge deal. Now, with the college costs, it IS a big deal. Health care costs need to be addressed. I also think welcoming in illegals into this country with a blank check that you will cover their healthcare is nuts and unsustainable.
People used to care if they were obese or fat. Now they don't. With the viewpoint of every body is ok, we have perpetuated that.
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