Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Get back to normal? There would be over 2 million deaths if we just ignored what's happening and buried our heads in the sand all in the name of freedom. You aren't free if you are dead.
Just found out today an acquaintance of ours spent 11 days on a ventilator and dies of Covid-19 today. 56 yrs old, no pre-existing health issues and otherwise was healthy! Lived near Daytona Florida. Her son in his 30's is now also in the hospital with the virus.
Look, if I was being a selfish jerk and going out there spreading this through reckless disregard? I'd deserve it. Saying that this virus is "just a cold" and protesting in close gatherings because "my freedom" is being threatened is selfish disregard for my dear ones serving in health care, police departments, and fire houses. So yes, I give a rats behind that poor you has to stay home to save lives. None of us wants to be in this situation. We all have to suck it up.
Agreed, 100%
Not only that, experts have clearly said not to take this lightly. I stay home so I don't contract it and give it to the rest of my family. I don't want any of us hospitalized!
Just found out today an acquaintance of ours spent 11 days on a ventilator and dies of Covid-19 today. 56 yrs old, no pre-existing health issues and otherwise was healthy! Lived near Daytona Florida. Her son in his 30's is now also in the hospital with the virus.
It's the uncertainty of this virus that is why it's so dangerous to reopen up. We just don't have the data to backup who can live or die with the virus.
You can point data that 90% of kids do just fine but then the 10% dies. Who wants to take the risk even if it's 1%?
I believe if people want to open up, let them be. It's their liberty but it's my decision not to patronize.
You can be immune to the virus but you can kill your partner or parents if you pass it to them. Who is willing to bear this responsibility if it happens?
So the business opens up early, customers come in get virus, employees get virus too, lawsuits prevail, business goes bankrupt paying medical bills and other related costs.
Think about it business owners.
There's something like 330 million people in the USA. That would mean that we would have to test 165 million people every year for two years. Doable? No. So there goes your simpleton argument that everyone who wants a test can get a test. Yet another Trump lie.
My other posts suggests a representative sampling.
Why bring up Trump I don't watch Fox, CNN or NBC?
is that supposed to give you some kind of edge and label me?
I'm an L.A. native minority, indie thinker in politics, and very proud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy
It was knowledge. Just like it isn't hysteria that makes me give Covid a wide berth. It's knowledge.
you're right it is knowledge and further "research" outside of network TV and the govt.
Standford University, a Northern California based institution with consistent and exceptionally high academic honors in medicine and technology has debunked Fauci and NIH's death scaring tactics modeling presented by Fauci and the media.
Dismiss it if you want. studies and trials are facts. One doctor's voice and expert opinion are not facts.
I have many more PhD epidemiologists (other countries) who disagree with Fauci's shutdown too. Sanitizing and distancing we can all agree on, not the shutdown.
It doesn't matter what news source you watch frankrj. Trump was all over every network on his daily lie session talking about "every American needing a test can get one." (I personally like watching that eye candy David Muir on World News.)
Here's the thing. Reality is staring us in the face with Covid. We know that earlier mitigation would have saved lives, per Dr. Fauci. New York was late, Illinois was early. Even with early mitigation in our state, we still grow by over 1,000 cases a day and we have not peaked yet.
How about Dr's and opinions are based on facts?
How about we just open our eyes and look?
We saw what was coming with the carnage in Wuhan. We can look at a model response like Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore. We can compare our response to those responses, and we look like a third world country.
Singapore can be both a poster child for a good response and a lesson for what one missed element can do to totally derail everything. They missed on key element, and that was import cases from migrants. They have now spiked to over 9,000 cases and have since gone into shut down. Read about what Singapore did.
If you look at our meat packing plants and the cluster outbreaks there, then there is only one conclusion. Singapore had a spike because of the close contact between migrants. Our meat packing plants had large clusters of outbreaks because of close contact. New York has a dense population and had a late start with mitigation and they are leading the country in cases. Chicago had an early response to mitigation and has slowed the spread.
That's proof enough for me that social distancing is what is needed. Experts can disagree, but what matters is what's happening in real time.
Sweden will be interesting to watch. Italy warned us not to take this as lightly as they did, and we saw the carnage. You go out there if you want to. I'm giving this highly infectious SARS virus a wide berth.
Just found out today an acquaintance of ours spent 11 days on a ventilator and dies of Covid-19 today. 56 yrs old, no pre-existing health issues and otherwise was healthy! Lived near Daytona Florida. Her son in his 30's is now also in the hospital with the virus.
I am sorry to hear that. The worse of all this is losing a friend or family member and this will continue to happen just like auto accidents will continue to kill people. So will the flu and many other diseases. There have been many who have died that are younger than mid 60s and had no pre-existing conditions , but this is not a majority.
and for those who keep lecturing some not to take this lightly: what makes you think most are taking it lightly. Most of those I know are taking it very seriously, but they also understand life will go on and there is no way we can continue the shut in mentality. the entire world economy would crash and still no guarantee the virus will not die out.
Reopening now seems to be based on politics not scientific data and statistics. There is no vaccine and if you look at earlier vaccination development the time it takes to produce an effective vaccine from the progression through laboratory, animal and human testing you’re talking years.
And it appears like the flu the virus will fall and rise through the population on a seasonal basis. Like other viral infections Corona may mutate and first generation vaccinations may no longer be effective. We’re talking about the tip of an iceberg now and governments and economies face historic peril that will reshape our world for generations.
It doesn't matter what news source you watch frankrj. Trump was all over every network on his daily lie session talking about "every American needing a test can get one." (I personally like watching that eye candy David Muir on World News.)
Here's the thing. Reality is staring us in the face with Covid. We know that earlier mitigation would have saved lives, per Dr. Fauci. New York was late, Illinois was early. Even with early mitigation in our state, we still grow by over 1,000 cases a day and we have not peaked yet.
How about Dr's and opinions are based on facts?
How about we just open our eyes and look?
We saw what was coming with the carnage in Wuhan. We can look at a model response like Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore. We can compare our response to those responses, and we look like a third world country.
Singapore can be both a poster child for a good response and a lesson for what one missed element can do to totally derail everything. They missed on key element, and that was import cases from migrants. They have now spiked to over 9,000 cases and have since gone into shut down. Read about what Singapore did.
If you look at our meat packing plants and the cluster outbreaks there, then there is only one conclusion. Singapore had a spike because of the close contact between migrants. Our meat packing plants had large clusters of outbreaks because of close contact. New York has a dense population and had a late start with mitigation and they are leading the country in cases. Chicago had an early response to mitigation and has slowed the spread.
That's proof enough for me that social distancing is what is needed. Experts can disagree, but what matters is what's happening in real time.
Sweden will be interesting to watch. Italy warned us not to take this as lightly as they did, and we saw the carnage. You go out there if you want to. I'm giving this highly infectious SARS virus a wide berth.
Somehow my comments are being interpreted as a non-believer in distancing and sanitizing. I do both of these and advise that. I am only disputing his models of 2 million, then 200,000 deaths, if we don't do it based on two University studies from PhD, MDs from USC and Stanford. They are doctors and their data says the mortality rate will be far less. Data is science. Studies and tests are facts. Models are future speculations.
Why is Fauci's model more convincing than these two prestigious Universities' studies or other epidemiologists around the world?
I have applauded how California has handled it, but not Gov. Cuomo or Pres. Trump. Cuomo should have followed California's lead early on. Governors talk, especially these two states. i guess I think they do which may be my mistake.
Sadly, we are a third world country in "some respects" and I've lived in one before.
Reopening now seems to be based on politics not scientific data and statistics. There is no vaccine and if you look at earlier vaccination development the time it takes to produce an effective vaccine from the progression through laboratory, animal and human testing you’re talking years.
And it appears like the flu the virus will fall and rise through the population on a seasonal basis. Like other viral infections Corona may mutate and first generation vaccinations may no longer be effective. We’re talking about the tip of an iceberg now and governments and economies face historic peril that will reshape our world for generations.
I am not sure I agree as there are plenty of data, infections curves, etc. being published. I mean the president is having a daily new conference with charts and graphs and so forth. Lots of data, lots of statistics. In fact it may be the other way around as I've heard counter arguments that scientists with CDC are now making decisions for the country, regardless of political, social, and economic impact.
However, someone pointed out that half of the country want things opened (to the extent of protesting), half wants to keep things closed. And of course you have the partisan political party view who think whatever the president decides, whatever it may be, is bad. So now we are meeting in the middle and opening in stages. Which probably is making no one happy. I've always heard that the key to a good compromise is not when everyone is happy, as that's impossible, or one party happy, which is not fair, but when everyone is mad. No side wins but it's still a compromise. That seems to be what we have.
And the partisan view, with the "but Trump did this", can of course safely be ignored, as we already know there agenda.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There's something like 330 million people in the USA. That would mean that we would have to test 165 million people every year for two years. Doable? No. So there goes your simpleton argument that everyone who wants a test can get a test. Yet another Trump lie. 
