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Old 05-12-2020, 04:50 AM
 
Location: los angeles county
1,712 posts, read 1,608,023 times
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Wouldn't it be easy to put recovered people in the same room as new cases and see if they get corona again?
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:05 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
4,729 posts, read 1,969,135 times
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Ethics problems.


This is certainly the reason our prisons are so over-crowded: prisoners used to be able to shorten their sentences by volunteering for medical research studies, but they can't do that anymore due to ethics rules in research put in place 50 y/a
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Old 05-12-2020, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Central IL
17,740 posts, read 10,947,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oh come on! View Post
Wouldn't it be easy to put recovered people in the same room as new cases and see if they get corona again?
Geez...let's get you exposed...be sure to let you live through it so you can then hopefully develop antibodies and then expose you again - just for the fun of it!

We aren't in the days of Tuskegee (you can look up THAT horror)...or go back to Mengele, even.
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Old 05-12-2020, 07:37 AM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
10,530 posts, read 7,272,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Ethics problems.


This is certainly the reason our prisons are so over-crowded: prisoners used to be able to shorten their sentences by volunteering for medical research studies, but they can't do that anymore due to ethics rules in research put in place 50 y/a
There's no other scientific way to pin this down?

I don't quite understand why this is even a question. Unless, of course, the question is concocted for political reasons like most everything else today.

Put simply, I thought the presence of antibodies produced (at least a degree of) immunity essentially by definition. Antibodies fight off the infection, no?

If we're not sure about antibodies, how could we be sure about a vaccine (that we may or may not ever see)?

I think this is pure (actually anything but) politics used to expand political damage to the greatest extent possible.
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:15 AM
 
2,311 posts, read 599,509 times
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Well -it's not that simple, crown.


What if it provided immunity - for a week? A month? A year? That is the question. There is very little doubt that it provides SOME immunity for some time - but for how long? And has the virus mutated enough so that someone that got "immune" in March is STILL immune today? These are the questions to which we do not know the answers - and don't have a good way to find out.

Asking people to get re-infected is really, really, a bad idea. Just because it doesn't kill you doesn't mean it's any kind of fun. Many of these folks are going to have life-long health problems because of COVID. You don't see them in the death-count, though.
I don't know much about the "herd immunity" theory - but I suppose one way they'll know is if the rate of infection decreases in a predictable way that indicates a lot of people are no longer vulnerable. At a certain point - there won't be an alternate theory - people are immune, and that's that. I think that's what we're just...waiting around for.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:28 AM
 
2,761 posts, read 1,437,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
There's no other scientific way to pin this down?

I don't quite understand why this is even a question. Unless, of course, the question is concocted for political reasons like most everything else today.

Put simply, I thought the presence of antibodies produced (at least a degree of) immunity essentially by definition. Antibodies fight off the infection, no?

If we're not sure about antibodies, how could we be sure about a vaccine (that we may or may not ever see)?

I think this is pure (actually anything but) politics used to expand political damage to the greatest extent possible.

There's no cure and no treatment for that kind of thinking.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,814 posts, read 91,207,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
There's no cure and no treatment for that kind of thinking.
You have your opinion and others have theirs. Let's just face it, we all think and are reacting differently to the virus and what really will or is working. No one knows much of anything at this point.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:42 AM
 
2,311 posts, read 599,509 times
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Forgot to mention - we are definitely NOT SURE about a vaccine. Some work, some wear off, some require tweaking every year, etc., etc. - no guarantees.
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
9,183 posts, read 5,451,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Put simply, I thought the presence of antibodies produced (at least a degree of) immunity essentially by definition. Antibodies fight off the infection, no?
No, not all of them. Antibodies bind to a protein (which might be on the capsule of the virus, or expressed on the surface of a cell infected by the virus), but not all of them fix complement (which is what is needed for an antibody to directly destroy an infected cell). Antibodies which fix complement and directly destroy an infected cell are called 'neutralizing antibodies;" those are what is needed for humoral immunity. (There is a second pathway, cellular immunity, which doesn't directly depend on antibodies destroying an infected cell, which the body can also use to fight infection. In cellular immunity, T-cells and natural killer cells destroy the cells infected with the virus; antibodies may help T-cells recognize an infected cell, but the T-cell actually carries out the destruction.)

Having antibodies to HIV, for example, doesn't help you become immune to the HIV virus.

Quote:
If we're not sure about antibodies, how could we be sure about a vaccine (that we may or may not ever see)?
That is why clinical trials of any potential vaccine are required. (Also longitudinal clinical trials following people who are known to have been infected with SARS-CoV-2; that's how you get the answers as to what types of antibodies are being produced and how long they persist following recovery.)
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:11 AM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
10,530 posts, read 7,272,385 times
Reputation: 11449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
You have your opinion and others have theirs. Let's just face it, we all think and are reacting differently to the virus and what really will or is working. No one knows much of anything at this point.
mod: rude comment deleted





guido is an MD and has previously voiced his expectation of antibody immunity, so I'm anxious to hear his elaboration.

Last weekend, nita, I craved an In-N-Out lunch enough to drive down there to see how long the line was. It's drive-through only, of course. I couldn't even get near the big parking lot....would have been an hour wait at least.

Last edited by in_newengland; 05-12-2020 at 01:45 PM..
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