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Old 05-26-2020, 01:17 PM
 
5,457 posts, read 11,643,796 times
Reputation: 13420

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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
The "totally irresponsible" comment was because the people going were primary caretakers for a 95 yr old person in their household.


If you are spaced apart, not elbow to elbow for hours sitting at a bar it will be a non issue.
Would you swim in a pool with a "peeing" section??

Doesn't matter if you are not "elbow to elbow" at a bar.....if you are sitting indoors in a restaurant you are all breathing the same air and not just for a few seconds but anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours....

Your listing of "other" causes of death is also meaningless...

1. As another poster already pointed out....we are talking about an airborne infectious disease, none of your other examples qualify

2. 330 million people in the US and 100K dead with current estimates that LESS THAN 5% of the population has been exposed...

Let's be generous and say that 5% of the US population HAS BEEN exposed to this coronavirus, that's 100k deaths out of 16 million now extrapolate THAT number to 200+ million which is how many would likely be exposed if the virus spreads unchecked....

Current estimates for COVID 19 death rate is 1.3% but ranges anywhere from 0.5 to 3+%...

Seasonal flu is 0.1%....that is a HUGE difference

About 80% of the population needs to be exposed to reach herd immunity (assuming herd immunity is possible)

Thats 260 million people

At current estimates of death rate from this virus, on the low end, that's 2+ million Americans dead

Is that number acceptable to you?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0518144915.htm
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:34 PM
 
5,457 posts, read 11,643,796 times
Reputation: 13420
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
As long as there is continuing fear mongering and negativity that "it's out there" it will remain there...and truth be known viruses are everywhere. The more negative we manifest, the more there will be. Enjoy all.
We aren't talking "viruses" in general...

We are talking about ONE virus in particular.....the coronavirus responsible for causing COVID 19

A virus with a death rate of somewhere in the range of 1-3%....by the way 20% of 80 year olds need hospitalization for COVID 19 and around 8-10% die...

This virus doesn't care whether you believe in it..

It doesn't care if you buy into negativity....it will continue to infect and cause harm regardless

Knowledge of how to protect oneself isn't fear mongering.....sticking one's head in the sand and pretending this pandemic doesn't exist doesn't just endanger the ostrich...it endangers everyone the ostrich comes in contact with since the ostrich is unlikely to practice safe behaviors...
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:49 PM
 
9,280 posts, read 8,116,304 times
Reputation: 7741
For anyone age 50 and above, there's a very high hospitalization rate if you get infected. It ranges from nearly 1-in-10 to 1-in-5 climbing with age. And being hospitalized with a life--threatening condition like pneumonia is no walk in the park. I would limit time in restaurants to 30-45 minutes depending on the amount of protection. I'm not impressed by 18 extra inches of shielding from plexiglass barriers since the ventilation and talking will redistribute the virus. Some states are banning singing in churches for that reason.

They've just come out and warned people against taking vitamin D because it has no effect and people are at risk of liver toxicity.
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
23,903 posts, read 25,832,877 times
Reputation: 53243
NPR ran a good piece on COVID risk assessment over the weekend: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...summer-activit

Quote:
"We can think of transmission risk with a simple phrase: time, space, people, place," explains Dr. William Miller, an epidemiologist at Ohio State University.

Here's his rule of thumb: The more time you spend and the closer in space you are to any infected people, the higher your risk. Interacting with more people raises your risk, and indoor places are riskier than outdoors.

Dr. Emily Landon, a hospital epidemiologist and infectious diseases specialist at University of Chicago Medicine, has her own shorthand: "Always choose outdoors over indoor, always choose masking over not masking and always choose more space for fewer people over a smaller space."
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Ohio
5,714 posts, read 2,168,343 times
Reputation: 5123
I like the Johns Hopkins web site.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases

No question that the US has a much shallower downslope than other countries. In other words, new cases are not decreasing very fast, unlike Italy, where they took extreme measures to shut everything down; of course that is a lot easier in a smaller country. It's another month or 6 weeks of downslope in the US (today is May 26) to begin to approach pre-Covid.

Like the guy said up above, the risk of Covid death to the overall population is pretty small. However for at-risk people it is considerably higher. So the question is an ethical/moral one.

Let's says you are in a lower risk group. Do you go ahead with business as usual, no mask, no social distancing, same as it ever was - with the knowledge you could be spreading the virus directly or indirectly through your behavior, which others surely will follow?

After all it won't be you that suffers a horrific Covid death, and maybe you don't have many in your family over 60 so odds are good it won't affect your family either. Since it won't affect you or yours, why not "live for today"? That seems to be the thinking of many people, when interviewed it's clear they could not care less about anyone outside their circle.

Last edited by GearHeadDave; 05-26-2020 at 02:06 PM..
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:02 PM
 
Location: DFW/Texas
848 posts, read 789,683 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever Blue View Post
I totally agree w/ you both 200%!!

Yes, I have a couple of health issues that compromise my immunity, but even if I didn't, I'm not taking any chances. Better to be safe, than sorry. The last thing I want is to find out, an employee tested positive at the (such & such) place & I just got food there yesterday. Hell no!

Fiance' & I used to get takeout/fast food a LOT, but stopped cold turkey on March 26th. Do we still want to get food somewhere out there? Sure, but we're staying strong & not doing it.

Now that places are starting to have dine-in, we're still not doing any of it (takeout, curbside, etc.) anytime soon still.

I, too, wont' feel copletely safe again until a cure/vaccine is developed.


You may be waiting a long time. What makes anyone believe that a truly safe and effective vaccine is going to be developed so soon? It took 12 YEARS for an influenza vaccine to be developed, people! Scientists aren't gods, you know, they're humans and humans are only capable of so much.

Take a look at this and jump to page 13: https://www.cugh.org/sites/default/f...1_Graham.B.pdf
Those of you who are waiting to get back to normal living until a vaccine is developed...you really need a reality check. Can you imagine what will happen if a vaccine is rushed out only to have a slew of negative side effects? Too many people and parents already don't believe in the safety of vaccines, which has lead to the re-emergence of diseases we thought to be eradicated. A Covid vaccine screw up would be devastating to the entire community that is developing vaccines for so many other diseases, not to mention to the medical community.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:04 PM
 
2,924 posts, read 1,662,727 times
Reputation: 12732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I frequently dined out before COVID, have dined out since, in multiple cities, and will continue to do so. I have been shoulder to shoulder in a local bar since COVID, though I am in an area with a very low infection rate.

I'm going to continue dining out with reasonable precautions. I'm in my mid-30s, no prior conditions, rarely ill. Giving the restaurants and bars business is as much of a sign of solidarity with them as it is rebellion against overeager authorities.

While you are young and don't get sick, you may still be a carrier, and everyone shoulder to shoulder in a bar with you can be exposed by you.


Giving a sign of solidarity with local restaurants and bars is doing no one a favor if you're a carrier and don't know it.



And "rebellion" against authorities, please, that's like a kid refusing to wash his hands before dinner just because he was told to by his parents/authorities.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Southern California
27,577 posts, read 10,409,403 times
Reputation: 17647
Well I will continue to think and say, change your mind and change your life...Take Action. Talking on another similar thread in Alt Med, I can't help but believe things possibly would be so different now if the MAJORITY had been working on their immune systems.

I refuse to stay in fear and negativity and look for positive in all aspects of my life. Those who choose fear and negativity, good luck.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Southern California
27,577 posts, read 10,409,403 times
Reputation: 17647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berrie143 View Post
[/b]

You may be waiting a long time. What makes anyone believe that a truly safe and effective vaccine is going to be developed so soon? It took 12 YEARS for an influenza vaccine to be developed, people! Scientists aren't gods, you know, they're humans and humans are only capable of so much.

Take a look at this and jump to page 13: https://www.cugh.org/sites/default/f...1_Graham.B.pdf
Those of you who are waiting to get back to normal living until a vaccine is developed...you really need a reality check. Can you imagine what will happen if a vaccine is rushed out only to have a slew of negative side effects? Too many people and parents already don't believe in the safety of vaccines, which has lead to the re-emergence of diseases we thought to be eradicated. A Covid vaccine screw up would be devastating to the entire community that is developing vaccines for so many other diseases, not to mention to the medical community.
I've read plenty on this issue initially from a Reuters article probably a month or so back. I for one would not jump on any development pushed on the population. This article has had an impact on me

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN20Y1GZ
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Ohio
5,714 posts, read 2,168,343 times
Reputation: 5123
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgardener View Post
While you are young and don't get sick, you may still be a carrier, and everyone shoulder to shoulder in a bar with you can be exposed by you.

Giving a sign of solidarity with local restaurants and bars is doing no one a favor if you're a carrier and don't know it.

And "rebellion" against authorities, please, that's like a kid refusing to wash his hands before dinner just because he was told to by his parents/authorities.
It's just self indulgent adolescent prattle, you'd think by the time you reach 30 you'd be done with that nonsense. People liken this Covid crisis to WWII, but if we had these attitudes in WWII we'd be under the boot right now.

You have to acknowledge the reality that we live in a selfish age. Hey, it's not going to affect THEM or THEIRS so why should they care about anyone else around them? What was that Dickens Scrooge quote? "Let them die and decrease the surplus population", or something like that.

Last edited by GearHeadDave; 05-26-2020 at 02:39 PM..
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