U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 06-27-2020, 04:47 PM
 
13,250 posts, read 10,863,413 times
Reputation: 10431

Advertisements

Apparently, many vaccination campaigns for measles have been suspended in third world countries due to COVID-19, while simultaneously, many in the US are engaging in cultural wars and resisting masks, vaccinations, etc.

2019 saw many separate measles outbreaks around the globe:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...d-setting-year

So it seems natural to wonder, could we see measles go pandemic , perhaps in 2021?

 
Old 06-28-2020, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Wooster, Ohio
1,336 posts, read 960,544 times
Reputation: 2027
Yes, and not just measles. This is a problem in my area due to the large Amish population. When I was working part-time at the library, I went to the urgent care and requested the DPT vaccine, rather than just the DT vaccine. We have had Pertussis outbreaks here, and it has been a long time since I was a child.
 
Old 06-30-2020, 09:13 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
4,044 posts, read 1,580,998 times
Reputation: 9381
Herd immunity is basically moving the stepping stones across the creek so far apart that the bug can't get across.


Each different bug has its own characteristics in terms of how long it survives outside the host, how it's spread, minimum infective inoculum dose, etc...As such, the portion of the population with immunity required to produce herd immunity varies according to the bug in question,.


IRCC- Rubeola, for example, requires 95% (!) immunity in the population to provide that protection; others much less. Ergo, as long as the ant-vaxxers remain less than 5% of the group, we're ok for Rubeola.


I've often wondered why the Nannycrats are so insistent on universal vax regs: as long as you & yours are vaccinated and thus protected, what do you care what others do?...The typical explanation is "to protect the immuno-incompetent," but that's a poor reason-- they're domed anyway. Pick the bug you want to die from. Does it really make a difference if it's Rubeola or something else?


This also brings up the question of CoViD...Different populations are developing relative herd immunity as a work in progress: if you notice, the US instituted sequestration as a preventive measure early on and we had a slower rate of disease spread, but now that rate is accelerating as we open up social interaction...While Europe closed down belatedly, had a rapid spread of disease but now has a slower rate as they open up again.....Hiding from a novel infectious agent "lowers the curve" (slows the rate of spread) but DOES NOT change the area under the two curves over time. (S-I-R Model of Epidemics).
 
Old 06-30-2020, 08:38 PM
 
2,547 posts, read 791,783 times
Reputation: 6786
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
I've often wondered why the Nannycrats are so insistent on universal vax regs: as long as you & yours are vaccinated and thus protected, what do you care what others do?...The typical explanation is "to protect the immuno-incompetent," but that's a poor reason-- they're domed anyway. Pick the bug you want to die from. Does it really make a difference if it's Rubeola or something else?
Because they care about people besides themselves? And no, the point is so immunocompromised people, and others who can't be vaccinated, are NOT doomed.
 
Old Yesterday, 05:28 AM
 
Location: The Bubble, Florida
464 posts, read 111,919 times
Reputation: 1461
Pandemic? Depends on how many countries are rejecting vaccines. Epidemic? Yup. There already is an epidemic of measles in a few countries, particularly in Brazil.
 
Old Yesterday, 06:05 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
4,044 posts, read 1,580,998 times
Reputation: 9381
Quote:
Originally Posted by K12144 View Post
Because they care about people besides themselves? And no, the point is so immunocompromised people, and others who can't be vaccinated, are NOT doomed.
a) There are more infectious diseases with no vaccine available those those with vaccines available, so effect of not vaccinating everybody, as long as herd immunity status is maintained has no effect, let alone for the immunocompromised who will find danger in some other infectious agent. That's why The Bubble Boy has to live in a tent. BTW- most immunocompromised people are those with AIDS or on chemotherapy for Ca or organ transplant--It's bacteria (no really good vaccines) that gets them, not viruses.

b) We're not all priests. We don't have to live by the rule that God thinks every single, last soul is important...We're talking about Public Health considerations where statistics are important and statistics never apply to the individual....Ironically, the very same people who advocate "one-size-fits-all" political policies are the very same ones who think "every individual is important" on this subject....

Last edited by guidoLaMoto; Yesterday at 06:17 AM..
 
Old Yesterday, 07:55 AM
 
10,406 posts, read 10,158,434 times
Reputation: 33317
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Herd immunity is basically moving the stepping stones across the creek so far apart that the bug can't get across.


Each different bug has its own characteristics in terms of how long it survives outside the host, how it's spread, minimum infective inoculum dose, etc...As such, the portion of the population with immunity required to produce herd immunity varies according to the bug in question,.


IRCC- Rubeola, for example, requires 95% (!) immunity in the population to provide that protection; others much less. Ergo, as long as the ant-vaxxers remain less than 5% of the group, we're ok for Rubeola.


I've often wondered why the Nannycrats are so insistent on universal vax regs: as long as you & yours are vaccinated and thus protected, what do you care what others do?...The typical explanation is "to protect the immuno-incompetent," but that's a poor reason-- they're domed anyway. Pick the bug you want to die from. Does it really make a difference if it's Rubeola or something else?


This also brings up the question of CoViD...Different populations are developing relative herd immunity as a work in progress: if you notice, the US instituted sequestration as a preventive measure early on and we had a slower rate of disease spread, but now that rate is accelerating as we open up social interaction...While Europe closed down belatedly, had a rapid spread of disease but now has a slower rate as they open up again.....Hiding from a novel infectious agent "lowers the curve" (slows the rate of spread) but DOES NOT change the area under the two curves over time. (S-I-R Model of Epidemics).
Wow.....I'm really surprised to hear you say you don't believe in mandatory vaccination for diseases like the measles. You know very well not everyone develops immunity from a vaccination. You also know that a disease like measles is highly contagious. We had measles essentially eradicated in this country until a few years ago when anti-vaxxers started not vaccinating their kids for it. Now, ,we have periodic outbreaks.

Having measles can do lifelong damage to a child's immune system.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...ous%20diseases.
 
Old Yesterday, 08:05 AM
 
5,832 posts, read 2,564,786 times
Reputation: 11339
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
a) There are more infectious diseases with no vaccine available those those with vaccines available, so effect of not vaccinating everybody, as long as herd immunity status is maintained has no effect, let alone for the immunocompromised who will find danger in some other infectious agent. That's why The Bubble Boy has to live in a tent. BTW- most immunocompromised people are those with AIDS or on chemotherapy for Ca or organ transplant--It's bacteria (no really good vaccines) that gets them, not viruses.

b) We're not all priests. We don't have to live by the rule that God thinks every single, last soul is important...We're talking about Public Health considerations where statistics are important and statistics never apply to the individual....Ironically, the very same people who advocate "one-size-fits-all" political policies are the very same ones who think "every individual is important" on this subject....
The main issue in previous outbreaks is that MMR vaccinations aren’t effective for babies under a year old, so we’re talking a large portion of the population that is not safe. Many parents don’t have the option to keep their babies at home for a full year before they can get the MMR, and putting them into situations where they are with other folks who have been unvaccinated puts their babies at risk as all other babies will likely also be unvaccinated due to the age. One unvaccinated person in that setting who is a caregiver, etc. can be very dangerous.
 
Old Yesterday, 08:20 AM
 
7,462 posts, read 4,142,824 times
Reputation: 8384
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Wow.....I'm really surprised to hear you say you don't believe in mandatory vaccination for diseases like the measles. You know very well not everyone develops immunity from a vaccination. You also know that a disease like measles is highly contagious. We had measles essentially eradicated in this country until a few years ago when anti-vaxxers started not vaccinating their kids for it. Now, ,we have periodic outbreaks.

Having measles can do lifelong damage to a child's immune system.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...ous%20diseases.
First of all you should have pointed out to that poster that Rubella is not Measles, although it used to be called German Measles, or 24 hour Measles. Had both as an infant in 1948.

My generation had all those diseases. There are still millions of us alive today who never got that MMR vaccination. Is it 100% immunity? No, but it is around the same 95% immunity rate as with the vaccine. That is why we aren't required to get that vaccination if we had the actual disease. Is there a vaccine that is 100%? NO.
 
Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
 
10,406 posts, read 10,158,434 times
Reputation: 33317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
First of all you should have pointed out to that poster that Rubella is not Measles, although it used to be called German Measles, or 24 hour Measles. Had both as an infant in 1948.

My generation had all those diseases. There are still millions of us alive today who never got that MMR vaccination. Is it 100% immunity? No, but it is around the same 95% immunity rate as with the vaccine. That is why we aren't required to get that vaccination if we had the actual disease. Is there a vaccine that is 100%? NO.
His comment "pick the bug you want to die from" suggests to me that he feels this way about all vaccines.

You and I have been round' and round' about vaccination. Neither of us is going to convince the other of anything. I had mumps, rubella, and chicken pox. I'm grateful my kids could avoid all those and shingles when they get older.

I think most people understand though the importance of mandatory vaccination for the diseases on the recommended vaccine schedule.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top