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Claims made in (b) and (c) are obviously in conflict in each other and patently wrong. States with more restrictive enforcement had herd immunity since you claim they caused higher infection rates. Therefore, infection rates should be declining more in the 'Draconian' states, not the lax states.
You're just making claims and not providing anything to back it up.
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I provided the link to the CDC data earlier.
Your analysis of the situation is exactly backwards: states that had the most restrictive regs early on are now seeing a more robust "second wave," while the states that opened up early are not showing second waves but a flattening out of new infections at lower rates...That suggests that (a) the regs only delayed new infections and (b) that masks/social distancing/sequestration isn't nearly as effective as they hoped it would be
Another way of looking at it: MVA death rate is 1 in 10,000 per yr...We all accept that and use our cars without hesitation...Anyone who has too much anxiety over the risk of an auto death and refuses to get in a car is probably under the care of a psychiatrist (or should be if he isn't).....Yet we have "experts" proclaiming that 1 in 330,000 is unacceptably high and drastic measures should be instituted to reduce that risk.
"Crashes" and "rates" are different metrics, as I pointed out in my post that you quoted. Total crashes are down, fatalities based on miles driven (rate) is up due to crashes being more severe when they do happen, largely because of speeding.
I have gotten two rebates on auto insurance premiums in the last six months because my insurer's losses are down.
As I said before, some of those heart and stroke deaths are probably from undiagnosed COVID-19. People can have a heart attack or stroke due to the abnormal clotting caused by the virus.
The diabetic deaths, if truly due only to uncontrolled diabetes, imply lack of care, either due to reluctance to go to the hospital or inability to do so for some reason. People need to understand that they should not delay emergent or urgent care due to fear of COVID-19.
"Crashes" and "rates" are different metrics, as I pointed out in my post that you quoted. Total crashes are down, fatalities based on miles driven (rate) is up due to crashes being more severe when they do happen, largely because of speeding.
I have gotten two rebates on auto insurance premiums in the last six months because my insurer's losses are down.
Is that behavior due to COVID-19 or the civil unrest and rioting?
As I said before, some of those heart and stroke deaths are probably from undiagnosed COVID-19. People can have a heart attack or stroke due to the abnormal clotting caused by the virus.
The diabetic deaths, if truly due only to uncontrolled diabetes, imply lack of care, either due to reluctance to go to the hospital or inability to do so for some reason. People need to understand that they should not delay emergent or urgent care due to fear of COVID-19.
I would say civil unrest is clearly related to the lockdown/restrictions so I would also infer the the homicide rate is as well.
What you are saying about heart attacks, strokes and diabetes is not what the experts are saying about the rise.
It’s good to know that indoor dining is higher risk so people who are higher risk can use that info to make decisions about what they would like to do but it’s also important to factor in the fact that restaurant will fold without customers so people who want to take the risk can still support them.
Then adaptations already needed to be made to reduce the effects on the bike lanes, sidewalks, and bus stops.
Issue tickets for blocking bike lanes and sidewalks. Relocate bus stops.
One burger and BBQ place (which normally also has indoor seating) here added a walkup window. You can park and place an order at the window if the drive through lane is full.
Those are expensive band-aids for the symptoms. To address the underlying cause, there should be fewer drive-thrus creating a hostile environment for the most vulnerable street users. Instead, we're using the pandemic as an excuse to create more of them. Major fast food chains have started out rolling new store design prototypes that have multiple drive-thru lanes and reduced indoor occupancy. When we think of the private car not merely as transportation but instead as the ultimate family-sized personal protective equipment, that's a clear sign that we've lost all perspective about the broader concept of public health in our zeal to protect ourselves from the perceived risks of the virus.
I would say civil unrest is clearly related to the lockdown/restrictions so I would also infer the the homicide rate is as well.
What you are saying about heart attacks, strokes and diabetes is not what the experts are saying about the rise.
It’s good to know that indoor dining is higher risk so people who are higher risk can use that info to make decisions about what they would like to do but it’s also important to factor in the fact that restaurant will fold without customers so people who want to take the risk can still support them.
By civil unrest I was referring to the BLM mess and should have made that clearer. The homicides I have seen reported seem to be of that ilk.
I gave links about the heart attacks and strokes due to COVID-19. Those were written by experts. There are articles from Italy and France about it, too.
DH and I are not eating in, but we are getting curbside delivery from local restaurants and tipping well.
Our forty ninth anniversary dinner yesterday was take-out.
Those are expensive band-aids for the symptoms. To address the underlying cause, there should be fewer drive-thrus creating a hostile environment for the most vulnerable street users. Instead, we're using the pandemic as an excuse to create more of them. Major fast food chains have started out rolling new store design prototypes that have multiple drive-thru lanes and reduced indoor occupancy. When we think of the private car not merely as transportation but instead as the ultimate family-sized personal protective equipment, that's a clear sign that we've lost all perspective about the broader concept of public health in our zeal to protect ourselves from the perceived risks of the virus.
This thread is about the risks of indoor dining, so those drive throughs are not going away any time soon. It seems to me that you are blaming COVID-19 for pre-existing traffic problems as you perceive them.
The multiple drive through lanes predate COVID-19. They were a response to the desire to get people through the line more quickly.
Chick-fil-A bulldozed a restaurant here and built a new one, with a larger dining area and double drive through lanes. Employees come to your car and take your order and payment on a tablet computer. It is fast.
By civil unrest I was referring to the BLM mess and should have made that clearer. The homicides I have seen reported seem to be of that ilk.
I gave links about the heart attacks and strokes due to COVID-19. Those were written by experts. There are articles from Italy and France about it, too.
DH and I are not eating in, but we are getting curbside delivery from local restaurants and tipping well.
Our forty ninth anniversary dinner yesterday was take-out.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the protests and riots started when the lockdown did and continue to this day. I think it’s obvious they are closely related. Homicides are up in general. Getting takeout is a nice way to support restaurants and a good option for anyone who does not feel it’s safe or who is high risk but it doesn’t keep the businesses fully staffed by any means.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the protests and riots started when the lockdown did and continue to this day. I think it’s obvious they are closely related. Homicides are up in general. Getting takeout is a nice way to support restaurants and a good option for anyone who does not feel it’s safe or who is high risk but it doesn’t keep the businesses fully staffed by any means.
The vast majority of protests and riots associated with lethal violence are linked to BLM.
The vast majority of protests and riots associated with lethal violence are linked to BLM.
Right but the homicide rate going up is mostly related to other acts of violence totally unrelated to the protests/riots. A lot of people are on edge and it shows.
This thread is about the risks of indoor dining, so those drive throughs are not going away any time soon. It seems to me that you are blaming COVID-19 for pre-existing traffic problems as you perceive them.
The multiple drive through lanes predate COVID-19. They were a response to the desire to get people through the line more quickly.
Chick-fil-A bulldozed a restaurant here and built a new one, with a larger dining area and double drive through lanes. Employees come to your car and take your order and payment on a tablet computer. It is fast.
Yes, this thread started with a study about indoor dining, but, then as these threads do, it wandered into other territory. I'll leave it to a moderator to determine when that drift has been gone too far. Putting aside the blight of drive-thru restaurants, it is troubling to see how many events are being converted to a drive-thru operations without consideration of how they may exclude those relying on other means of transport and how they may promote a net negative effect on public health.
I've just learned that my local state fair, which has been cancelled, is now going to have a drive-thru event to allow people to purchase deep-fried fair food. The marketing language talks about "the safety of your own car," when in fact a car is the most dangerous place most people occupy on any given day. Of course, this is minor compared to the problem of so many virus testing operations being drive-thru only. The car-as-PPE mentality is the ultimate in myopic thinking about this pandemic.
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