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My 78 year old mom got an ERCP from a hospital a month ago that didn't remove all her gallstones in the neck or ducts of her gallbladder and her pancreatitis condition got worse and very serious to the point 5 days ago she fainted and got a mild fever of 38 (to 39 at highest) with stomach pains and vomiting after a big meal and had to go to the hospital to find out she also has an infection in the bloodstream, all caused by the gallstone obstruction.
My mom has been in the hospital for 5 days and she still has the same 38 (to 39) degree fever and the same infection in her bloodstream. Shes been on IV for the past 5 days and been receiving anti-biotics or meds that did not cure her of her infection and fever. She cannot receive gallbladder surgery until the infection and fever goes away.
Does anyone know on average how long should it take for a fever and infection in the bloodstream to go away while being treated in a hospital by anti-biotics due to gallstones?
Its been 5 days and i'm worried she'll have the same fever and infection even after 1 week or longer, and worried if her fever and infection gets worse to the point the infection spreads to other parts of her body and becomes life threatening, or leading to emergency gallbladder surgery.
Why is it taking so long for that hospital to relieve her of her fever and infection in the blood? Shouldn't it take less than 1 day? In 2 days it will be 1 week of the same fever and infection in her blood due to gallstone blockage.
Does anyone know if we have the legal right to have her transferred to another hospital of our choice while shes still on the IV? It was told to us by that same hospital when she first had a problem with the ERCP last month where she had to remain on IV for 10 days due to pain in her stomach and back that we can only transfer her to another hospital when shes off the IV.
...She cannot receive gallbladder surgery until the infection and fever goes away.
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It's a Catch-22 situation: she has the infection because she has infected, retained gall stones, and they can't be removed until the infection goes away.
Antibiotics do not "cure" infections. They only help reduce the load of bugs so the pt's immune system can do the final mop up, and those stones are relatively isolated from her blood supply that delivers the drugs.
There's also the possibility that she has a resistant strain of bacteria. They are no doubt using the standard routine antibiotics, which is the right choice, say, 90% of the time, which means it's wrong 10% of the time....The docs will have to decide if & when it's time to change the regimen.
As far as transfers go, you can do it any time you want, but keep in mind that it's dangerous to move an unstable pt, and are you sure the new hosp will be any better than the one she's at? Doubtful-- hospitals are neither good nor bad, but it's the docs handling the case that make the difference....Maybe ask for other consultants before you consider a transfer.
It is the rare pt indeed who will be helped only by the rare "expert" doctor.
I hate to say it, but there are no guarantees in illness & medical care. We can only hope for the best. Best wishes to you & your ma.
My 78 year old mom got an ERCP from a hospital a month ago that didn't remove all her gallstones in the neck or ducts of her gallbladder and her pancreatitis condition got worse and very serious to the point 5 days ago she fainted and got a mild fever of 38 (to 39 at highest) with stomach pains and vomiting after a big meal and had to go to the hospital to find out she also has an infection in the bloodstream, all caused by the gallstone obstruction.
My mom has been in the hospital for 5 days and she still has the same 38 (to 39) degree fever and the same infection in her bloodstream. Shes been on IV for the past 5 days and been receiving anti-biotics or meds that did not cure her of her infection and fever. She cannot receive gallbladder surgery until the infection and fever goes away.
Does anyone know on average how long should it take for a fever and infection in the bloodstream to go away while being treated in a hospital by anti-biotics due to gallstones?
Its been 5 days and i'm worried she'll have the same fever and infection even after 1 week or longer, and worried if her fever and infection gets worse to the point the infection spreads to other parts of her body and becomes life threatening, or leading to emergency gallbladder surgery.
Why is it taking so long for that hospital to relieve her of her fever and infection in the blood? Shouldn't it take less than 1 day? In 2 days it will be 1 week of the same fever and infection in her blood due to gallstone blockage.
Does anyone know if we have the legal right to have her transferred to another hospital of our choice while shes still on the IV? It was told to us by that same hospital when she first had a problem with the ERCP last month where she had to remain on IV for 10 days due to pain in her stomach and back that we can only transfer her to another hospital when shes off the IV.
I know this is hard for you and harder for your mom, but the older we get, the harder it is to get infections under control and the healing process slows down. The magic number I always say is: 80 and it sounds like she is approaching that number. I can not, nor can anyone else judge if this problem is related to the care she is being given or just her system not fighting the infection.
I am going through a situation right now where I have a huge sore on my left leg. Even the wound specialist is having problems clearing it up. My system just handle antibiotics as well as it used to.
It's a Catch-22 situation: she has the infection because she has infected, retained gall stones, and they can't be removed until the infection goes away.
Antibiotics do not "cure" infections. They only help reduce the load of bugs so the pt's immune system can do the final mop up, and those stones are relatively isolated from her blood supply that delivers the drugs.
There's also the possibility that she has a resistant strain of bacteria. They are no doubt using the standard routine antibiotics, which is the right choice, say, 90% of the time, which means it's wrong 10% of the time....The docs will have to decide if & when it's time to change the regimen.
As far as transfers go, you can do it any time you want, but keep in mind that it's dangerous to move an unstable pt, and are you sure the new hosp will be any better than the one she's at? Doubtful-- hospitals are neither good nor bad, but it's the docs handling the case that make the difference....Maybe ask for other consultants before you consider a transfer.
It is the rare pt indeed who will be helped only by the rare "expert" doctor.
I hate to say it, but there are no guarantees in illness & medical care. We can only hope for the best. Best wishes to you & your ma.
Thanks for the advice. They did say they did not use the right anti-biotic, and may also want to double up on an anti-biotic or try to find a correct one. Shouldn't a doctor drain the infection out of the gallbladder or ducts? Her fever went up to 38.5 last night and they had to give her tylenol in order to bring it down. I understand that they "can't(?)" remove the gallstones or gallbladder due to the infection BUT it is the gallstones that are causing the infection and by removing them or the gallbladder will cure her and i'm surprised they are waiting so long. Shes been there since Monday with the same fever and infection with no improvements and its now day 6 Saturday.
I did some googling about fever and infection due to gallstones and the importance of draining the infection-
"If the bile ducts become blocked, they're vulnerable to infection by bacteria. Antibiotics will help treat the infection, but it's also important to help the bile from the liver to drain with an endoscopic retrograde cholangio-pancreatography (ERCP)."
"If you have an infection, you need treatment before it worsens and becomes dangerous. The infection can become life-threatening if it spreads to other parts of the body".
"An infection may develop if the common bile duct is obstructed. Treatment for this condition is successful if the infection is found early. If it’s not, the infection may spread and become fatal."
(the infection was found early with a mild fever of 38, they are not applying the correct anti-biotics and are not doing surgery due to the infection).
I did some googling about fever and infection due to gallstones and the importance of draining the infection-
.
Sounds easy, doesn't it?....But there's a great risk of speeding the infection further by doing a procedure and risk of rupturing an infected biliary system.
"First do no harm" and all that.
Five days isn't unusual for this (but the longer you go, the worse the prognosis, generally speaking).
Sounds easy, doesn't it?....But there's a great risk of speeding the infection further by doing a procedure and risk of rupturing an infected biliary system.
"First do no harm" and all that.
Five days isn't unusual for this (but the longer you go, the worse the prognosis, generally speaking).
We talked to the nurse today who is giving my mom the anti-biotics and she said the infection will always be there until she gets surgery. Its not a serious infection and her fever is mild at 38 degrees so she is able to get surgery, although it depends what the doctor will say on Monday if she needs to wait longer for the infection to go down. We have found a different doctor who is highly skilled in another city that she already saw a few weeks ago and may want her transferred there. She sleeps alot in bed but is able to walk and go to the washroom if she needs to, and when awake she sounds ok or even good on the phone. We hope the surgery will go well next week if she gets it by then which she probably will.
Sounds like things are looking up. Good luck to her.
Thanks. Her gallbladder did get inflamed and enlarged due to the infection caused by the gallstones, although the anti-biotics she was on for 1 week reduced the infection in her blood to zero and she was released from the hospital today, needing to eat daily to regain her strength back to normal. We found a great doctor locally that she will be seeing next week but by the time she gets surgery it may be 2, 3 or more weeks. Since her gallbladder got inflamed and enlarged and was never drained of the infection(although she was on anti-biotics for 7 days), we're worried that by her eating everyday she may eventually get another attack and faint again in 2 or more weeks with infection in her blood all over again. It sure seems a specialist should of removed her gallbladder by now since gallstones are causing all of this. My father, brothers and I hope waiting another 2 to 4 weeks til our mother gets surgery should be ok without her getting another attack, fainting and infection in the blood again.
I would like to keep on posting updates until my mom gets surgery just in case it may also help someone else in a similar situation.
She saw the doctor today who is well skilled with experience (1000's of surgeries) and hes well booked until feb 2021, but they'll try to get her in for surgery before Christmas of 2020, which could be 2 months from now or 4 months. I think the doctor is over looking the seriousness of her gallbladder condition and the other problem is the doctor is saying shes not fully strong enough for surgery because shes 78 and still feels a little weak. She may not get any stronger because it is the gallstones (maby combined with her aging) that is causing this that can lead to another gallbaldder attack and her fainting again because they are not doing urgent surgery.
Shes been home from the hospital now for 7 days and has been on anti-biotic medications that she takes twice daily at home to keep the infection very low to zero, and "may still have (or may not have) an inflamed gallbladder" as thats what the doctor said.
Come 2 months from now if thats when shes getting surgery, she may not be any stronger than she is now and that doctor may refuse to do the surgery. It seems the elderly are being faced with a certain type of dscrimination (if im correct) where doctors are refusing to do surgery because the elderly happen to be a little weak, when ironically the elderly are usually the first ones in need of surgery due to their serious condition and older age. There should be laws to protect the elderly so a skilled doctor can't refuse them for surgery or treatment.
There should be laws to protect the elderly so a skilled doctor can't refuse them for surgery or treatment.
I know it's frustrating for you, but the elderly just don't do well with surgery.
The anesthesia itself can often cause strokes, heart attacks, liver or renal failure.
Then there's the risk of pneumonia after a major abdominal surgery when it's too painful to breath deeply or cough....and the elderly just don't heal quickly, so are more likely to get infections/ruptures of the surgical site, especially if their state of nutrition is low going in and hard to improve afterwards.
In making medical decisions, the risks have to be weighed against the benefits. Don't forget, she's so sick now because she is so old and is having trouble fighting infection & healing on her own.
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