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The study 'is quite interesting, and data in this paper are consistent with our data,' Tadamitsu Kishimoto, MD, PhD, of the Department of Immune Regulation at the Immunology Frontier Research Center at Osaka University, Osaka, Japan, told Medscape Medical News when asked to comment.
His study, published online August 21 in PNAS, also revealed lower serum IL-6 levels among people with COVID-19 compared to patients with bacterial ARDS or sepsis.
Kishimoto drew a distinction, however: COVID-19 patients can develop severe respiratory failure, suggesting a distinct immune reaction compared to patients with bacterial sepsis. SARS-CoV-2 directly infects and activates endothelial cells rather than macrophages, as occurs in sepsis.
For this reason, Kishimoto said, 'SARS-CoV-2 infection causes critical illness and severe dysfunction in respiratory organs and induces a cytokine storm,' even in the setting of lower but still elevated serum IL-6 levels."
I recall you condemning Medscape as a source previously. You deem it a reliable source now, when you find an opinion piece that supports your opinion? Interesting.
This is a letter to JAMA, describing patient characteristics. It does not prove anything. In fact the COVID patients ALL have other critical health issues .... so the letter to JAMA -- NOT a study or clinical trial of any kind -- doesn't prove/disprove anything. it's an observation of a small group of patients.
And what's equally HILARIOUS is that the JAMA letter has a different conclusion than the cherry-picked quotes from the Medscape article:
... critically ill patients with COVID-19 with ARDS had circulating cytokine levels that were lower compared with patients with bacterial sepsis and similar to other critically ill patients. .... The findings of this preliminary analysis suggest COVID-19 may not be characterized by cytokine storm.
Saying someone is unhealthy isn't "victim blaming." It's an objective statement. The reasons for being unhealthy? Are varied. it's like saying someone is fat. If someone is fat .... well, they're fat. it's an objective statement. Like saying someone has brown eyes.
People need to knock off the ideologic and personalization of factual statements and validate the facts.
Ideology and feelings are not science.
I don't know any diagnosis that is based on ideology and feelings rather than science .... oh wait .... I can think of a bunch just off the top of my head...
But you didn't simply say that someone "is unhealthy". Instead, you wrote that those with autoimmune issues were that way because they were unhealthy, thus implying that those with such difficulties neglect their health. That is simply not true, nor is it a "factual statement". It is victim blaming, despite your denial.
Acknowledging that is not "ideological", and it has nothing to do with "feelings" or "personalization" as far as I am concerned. It does have to do with my own personal experience of many years, medical advice, and as much information as I have been able to acquire about my own condition (one which is shared by many but which is still considered an orphan disease which still needs much scientific research to fully understand and conquer).
Known contributing factors to autoimmune diseases like mine include inherited familial patterns and high incidence of rheumatic diseases such as arthritis, rheumatism and lupus in other family members, and one or more episodes of high fever during childhood which restructured the original immune system so that it responds to the body's own tissues. None of these known causational factors has anything to do with being unhealthy due to an individual's own poor life choices.
I have lived with a serious autoimmune disease for most of my life. Until you have personal knowledge of and experience with autoimmune disorders, don't disparage and/or judge those who do have such knowledge and experience as having contracted an autoimmune disease because of poor health due to their neglectful behavior.
Blaming those who have autoimmune diseases as having contributed to their own disorders certainly IS victim blaming. It is both ethically wrong and scientifically mistaken, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with political ideology.
But you didn't simply say that someone "is unhealthy". Instead, you wrote that those with autoimmune issues were that way because they were unhealthy, thus implying that those with such difficulties neglect their health. That is simply not true, nor is it a "factual statement". It is victim blaming, despite your denial.
Acknowledging that is not "ideological", and it has nothing to do with "feelings" or "personalization" as far as I am concerned. It does have to do with my own personal experience of many years, medical advice, and as much information as I have been able to acquire about my own condition (one which is shared by many but which is still considered an orphan disease which still needs much scientific research to fully understand and conquer).
Known contributing factors to autoimmune diseases like mine include inherited familial patterns and high incidence of rheumatic diseases such as arthritis, rheumatism and lupus in other family members, and one or more episodes of high fever during childhood which restructured the original immune system so that it responds to the body's own tissues. None of these known causational factors has anything to do with being unhealthy due to an individual's own poor life choices.
I have lived with a serious autoimmune disease for most of my life. Until you have personal knowledge of and experience with autoimmune disorders, don't disparage and/or judge those who do have such knowledge and experience as having contracted an autoimmune disease because of poor health due to their neglectful behavior.
Blaming those who have autoimmune diseases as having contributed to their own disorders certainly IS victim blaming. It is both ethically wrong and scientifically mistaken, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with political ideology.
You are intent on putting words into my mouth.
Aside from being unsanitary, you are simply arguing with no-one. Have at it.
I recall you condemning Medscape as a source previously. You deem it a reliable source now, when you find an opinion piece that supports your opinion? Interesting.
This is a letter to JAMA, describing patient characteristics. It does not prove anything. In fact the COVID patients ALL have other critical health issues .... so the letter to JAMA -- NOT a study or clinical trial of any kind -- doesn't prove/disprove anything. it's an observation of a small group of patients.
And what's equally HILARIOUS is that the JAMA letter has a different conclusion than the cherry-picked quotes from the Medscape article:
... critically ill patients with COVID-19 with ARDS had circulating cytokine levels that were lower compared with patients with bacterial sepsis and similar to other critically ill patients. .... The findings of this preliminary analysis suggest COVID-19 may not be characterized by cytokine storm.
Sigh. Tedious.
Please link to my post where I was "condemning" Medscape.
Of course I quoted from the Medscape article. We are not allowed to post the whole thing. That is the reason for the link.
I think she believes in Dr. Fauci. Let's see what he says.
"If you want to keep your immune system working optimally, there are things that you do that are normal things," Fauci said.
His top 3 immuntiy tips: get a reasonable amount of sleep; get a good diet; try to alleviate stress. "That is much more healthy living than giving yourself supplements of anything," Fauci said.
I started posting the same tips in March but the usual suspects just want to argue and put the responsibility on the rest of society. I wonder what took Fauci so long to say it.
Half of American adults have underlying conditions due to diet and lifestyle factors. It's higher than that in older people, just because of diet and lifestyle. These are the people all of society is catering to. The idea that responsibility for individual health falls solely on the rest of society is getting tiresome.
We have a right not to be harmed by the actions of others. Each of us has a citizen’s responsibility to act responsibly toward other citizens. In the time of pandemic, this responsibility would include behaving so as not to endanger others. We have little else to protect ourselves than masking up, distancing and hand hygiene. So asking that of all of us is not unreasonable.
Does it also in any way reflect a) a lot of vulnerable people have already been "culled" by COVID-19 and b) a lot of vulnerable people are now social distancing.
Masks buy time. They should be doing other things to retrofit businesses, schools, and churches to reduce the level of contamination. Since remote work is a permanent trend, the coworking sites that are sprouting up are a big chance to create safer workspaces.
Please link to my post where I was "condemning" Medscape.
Of course I quoted from the Medscape article. We are not allowed to post the whole thing. That is the reason for the link.
YOU probably don't remember. It was at least a year ago. So YOU probably do not remember. But suzy_q condemned another poster for using Medscape as a source.
Your words are on the screen, straight from your misspeaking mouth. Sorry, it's a bit too late to deny them.
Moving on from this. Too much grief around me to waste my time with someone who rejects the truth in favor of dogmatic false theories.
Yep. You missed that statement I made that causes CAN be varied. Missed it entirely. Glad you are moving on.
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