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Rather than single out a specific drug, I'm kind of horrified at the percentage of people who need one kind of drug or other to function in life (whether prescription, drugs, alcohol, caffeine, etc.). OK, I'm a sodaholic myself. But am I the only one who thinks this is not quite right? That we're not meant to be living in a way where various substances are used as crutches to get us through life? I don't think we're meant to live like this.
I think stress is part of being alive. And animals, including humans, have tumbled across many ways to alleviate stress - including ingesting "feel good" substances.
As a kid, every fall I'd watch cedar waxwings descend on our pyracantha vine to eat the berries. Cedar waxwings were the first birds I learned to identify on my own - my parents didn't know what they were, so I had to figure out how to look them up in a book. Every year, they would arrive. A couple days later, after every berry was stripped, they'd leave, and I wouldn't see them again for another year.
I tried a pyracantha berry once, and they weren't a bit tasty - mealy and dry. Funnily enough, the waxwings were never around for the strawberries and raspberries in our yard, which were very tasty.
turns out that pyracantha berries ferment on the vine, the waxwings know when that happens, and they turn up for it. they're not interested in the unfermented berries.
Yes, some people do overdo it. But it's completely natural to enjoy alcohol. And cannabis. From the time we're born, our brain cells have receptors for cannabinoids.
Every where you look, and for as far back as you look, humans have consumed these "feel good" substances. there are plenty of arguments to be had about them, and quite a few are in fact toxic if wrongly used. And it's totally true that, as far as we know, they are not in any sense necessary for life. But the one argument I don't see how you can make is that we are somehow not "meant" to use them.
“It actually causes an examination of life, it allows people to see the truth of their lives and motivates change.”
“it did more to help me improve my life than therapy ever did.”
“I truly believe it allows access into parts of the brain we can't access when not under its influence.”
“amazingly effectual tools for treating PTSD and other mental illness.”
“You can't get past the picture of the young guy on the couch at 2 in the afternoon in a cloud of smoke with a bag of Cheetos, but that is not the typical user today.”
I believe one of the things that annoys some people about marijuana users is the desire to enthusiastically tell everyone that it enhances, helps or cures almost anything and 99.999% people using it have absolutely no negative effects.
Perhaps in the future we can see some long term studies on say traditional mental health treatments vs smoking marijuana at prescribed intervals.
In today’s America there’s A LOT of marijuana being consumed yet still A LOT of unhappy people. In my mind, anything consumed to create a better feeling...that must be consumed in greater amounts as time goes on to replicate the feeling...well it seems like a circle.
You're really reading a lot into my post that I never said or implied. And of the quotes above, for "amazingly effectual tool for treating PTSD and other mental illness" if you go back and re-read it you'll see I wasn't talking about pot I was referring to psychedelics such as psilocybin (the compound from magic mushrooms). They show tremendous promise so far, which is why that too is now being decriminalized (and in the case of Oregon, completely legalized for use under therapeutic supervision). Many more will follow, I believe. Even big pharma is researching an entirely new class of anti-depressants using them. Remember, just about every drug we use today is plant-based or based on a plant-based compound. Maybe read a little and open your mind. I think 100 years from now, people will look back and be amazed at our ignorance and that we ever put people in jail for these substances (that includes pot IMO) https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926694
I stand by all the statements I made, however I never said it cures everything or in fact even mentioned it curing anything. I never said it should be used by mentally ill people at all. In fact most research I have seen indicates it shouldn't be used by the mentally ill. I also never said 99.99% of people don't have negative side effects. I'd imagine the numbers are pretty similar to alcohol. Most users of both these substances use socially, not chronically, and I stand by that as well.
I would love to see more research. The reason we don't have more is that the Schedule One classification makes that near-impossible, but hopefully that will be lifted soon even if the Federal ban isn't.
It is you using hyperbole here, you are exaggerating everything I say and implying I said things I did not. How did you read enthusiasm into my post, when I didn't use a single exclamation point, btw? I simply stated my opinions and my own experiences.
It doesn't bother me if you are "annoyed" by my marijuana use, however personal annoyance doesn't justify destroying people's lives by keeping it illegal.
It is difficult to quantify definitively because the data they have is largely self-report (I don't see how you could collect that kind of data any other way) but I can go by 58 years of being alive on this planet, and the number of people who have been in my life that drink socially, vs the number that have problems or dependence on alcohol. The latter group is a very small fraction of the first.
I agree with you. People with a legitimate need aren’t getting relief when it’s needed. Back surgery often goes hand in hand with pain meds and no one who needs the meds should be turned away or have to see a doctor for a refill every month.
I was lucky in that my pain management doc was sensible about pot use at least. When he told me I had to give a urine sample to get prescribed the meds (after many weeks of seeing him and undergoing an epidural that didn't do anything....they made me get 3 before my surgery even though none of them did anything, another scam IMO) I told him I smoke and asked what would happen when my sample came back positive for THC. He said "I give you a lecture on the evils of pot then give you your prescription". So thank God for that. I thought the whole system was a ridiculous overcorrection for how easily they were prescribed before. Especially when I as an individual have a very long health history online available to any doc that cares to look, and it can be easily seen that every time I was prescribed pain meds in my life (only after surgeries prior) I never once got them refilled.
Our pendulum in this country swings only in extremes it seems. I was maddest about being forced to get the 3 epidurals though, at $250 co-pay each when none of them helped. I think the (corporate chain) pain management clinics are making a fortune off of those, using the "we are doing this to try to curb prescribing pain meds" as an excuse to push these hugely profitable procedures. I was actually told I had to get another, then another, if I wanted to keep getting my pain meds, which I absolutely needed to function until I finally was given surgery (after which I stopped them with no issues at all within a week or two after my surgery, which was wonderfully successful) Every epidural was like an assembly line, with people getting wheeled in and out every 15 minutes. There were dozens of people there each time.
ocngirl, I can't rep you again yet, but thank you for the intelligent and thoughtful responses in this thread. What also needs to be said is that the OP's premise - that marijuana "ultimately causes mental problems" - is false. Cannabis is a plant that has intoxicating side effects and can make existing mental problems worse, but it also many legitimate uses. When used responsibly and in moderation by adults, it can greatly enhance quality of life for people with chronic issues such as pain, anxiety, insomnia or epilepsy.
The fact that a small subset of "stoners" misuses it does not mean that cannabis should be illegal and no one should use it. If that were true, then you must also believe that drinking is evil because some people become alcoholics or that no one should have access to pain medication because some people become addicted to it. Same principle. The demonization of cannabis needs to stop. It deserves to be taken seriously as a medicine and legalized at the federal level so that more research can be done on its benefits and risks.
You're really reading a lot into my post that I never said or implied. And of the quotes above, for "amazingly effectual tool for treating PTSD and other mental illness" if you go back and re-read it you'll see I wasn't talking about pot I was referring to psychedelics such as psilocybin (the compound from magic mushrooms). They show tremendous promise so far, which is why that too is now being decriminalized (and in the case of Oregon, completely legalized for use under therapeutic supervision). Many more will follow, I believe. Even big pharma is researching an entirely new class of anti-depressants using them. Remember, just about every drug we use today is plant-based or based on a plant-based compound. Maybe read a little and open your mind. I think 100 years from now, people will look back and be amazed at our ignorance and that we ever put people in jail for these substances (that includes pot IMO) https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926694
I stand by all the statements I made, however I never said it cures everything or in fact even mentioned it curing anything. I never said it should be used by mentally ill people at all. In fact most research I have seen indicates it shouldn't be used by the mentally ill. I also never said 99.99% of people don't have negative side effects. I'd imagine the numbers are pretty similar to alcohol. Most users of both these substances use socially, not chronically, and I stand by that as well.
I would love to see more research. The reason we don't have more is that the Schedule One classification makes that near-impossible, but hopefully that will be lifted soon even if the Federal ban isn't.
It is you using hyperbole here, you are exaggerating everything I say and implying I said things I did not. How did you read enthusiasm into my post, when I didn't use a single exclamation point, btw? I simply stated my opinions and my own experiences.
It doesn't bother me if you are "annoyed" by my marijuana use, however personal annoyance doesn't justify destroying people's lives by keeping it illegal.
Shrooms, pot — whatever....there seems to be a lot of bias (the high) built into much of the pseudo science that says they are miracle cures/treatments.
Shrooms, pot — whatever....there seems to be a lot of bias (the high) built into much of the pseudo science that says they are miracle cures/treatments.
I gave you a link from Medscape regarding the psychedelics, a legit science based medical site. Not People magazine. But there are myriad sources if you have reason not to respect Medscape. Here’s an abstract that summarizes some of the studies from the government NIH website: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=1.04167
I gave you a link from Medscape regarding the psychedelics, a legit science based medical site. Not People magazine. But there are myriad sources if you have reason not to respect Medscape. Here’s an abstract that summarizes some of the studies from the government NIH website: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=1.04167
It says:
“Based on the studies presented, it appears psilocybin may have some efficacy as an alternative agent to manage mental health conditions. However, there are multiple limitations to these studies. Many of them are small and are not able to be applied to larger populations.”
ocngirl, I can't rep you again yet, but thank you for the intelligent and thoughtful responses in this thread. What also needs to be said is that the OP's premise - that marijuana "ultimately causes mental problems" - is false. Cannabis is a plant that has intoxicating side effects and can make existing mental problems worse, but it also many legitimate uses. When used responsibly and in moderation by adults, it can greatly enhance quality of life for people with chronic issues such as pain, anxiety, insomnia or epilepsy.
The fact that a small subset of "stoners" misuses it does not mean that cannabis should be illegal and no one should use it. If that were true, then you must also believe that drinking is evil because some people become alcoholics or that no one should have access to pain medication because some people become addicted to it. Same principle. The demonization of cannabis needs to stop. It deserves to be taken seriously as a medicine and legalized at the federal level so that more research can be done on its benefits and risks.
So you have scientific data over a long period of time that says long term marijuana use greatly enhances quality of life vs transitional medical approaches and healthy living (diet/sleep/exercise, etc).
Are “stoners” actually a small subset though? First we would have to define stoner. Regardless, I’d say A LOT (most) of marijuana is consumed simply for the high. When that high becomes part of daily life for more and more people in a society that continues to become more depressed, unhealthy and impoverished — well we have to consider all factors...even some that make us feel good.
So you have scientific data over a long period of time that says long term marijuana use greatly enhances quality of life vs transitional medical approaches and healthy living (diet/sleep/exercise, etc).
I never claimed to have scientific data over a long period of time. It probably doesn't exist. Because cannabis is a Schedule I drug according to the federal government. there haven't been enough studies done. However, studies from other countries have shown some promising medical benefits. A lot more research needs to be done because there's much we don't know. All I can tell you for sure is that in my own experience, cannabis does enhance quality of life for people who use it responsibly. Just because a person uses cannabis, that doesn't mean they can't also follow a healthy lifestyle and get medical care.
(Smoking it is another matter. I don't support that at all because it's never a good idea to put combusted plant material into your lungs. It may not be as carcinogenic as cigarette smoke, but it's still not good. One of the benefits of legalization is that you don't have to smoke it. There are now lots of healthier ways to use cannabis, such as tinctures, edibles, vaping or capsules.)
The stereotypical stoner type, i.e. Cheech and Chong, exists, of course. There are people like that. These are the ones who openly identify as stoners and build a whole slacker lifestyle around getting as high as possible as often as possible. Because they're so visible, this is the image that all cannabis users, unfortunately, are stuck with.
But it doesn't fit me or anyone else I know. It has been my experience after more than 40 years of being around cannabis users that most of us fly under the radar. We are invisible to you because we lead perfectly normal, productive lives like everyone else. You would never know that we use it unless we told you. I have no statistics to show you that would prove it, but I believe there are probably a lot more of us than there are of the Cheech and Chong types.
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