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That's all conjecture and based on anecdotal stories. That needs to be proven first before on takes the next step to explain the mechanism.
No, because the etiology would be easy to establish & the epidemiology in vaccine safety science couldn't correlate gravity to a falling object.
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There is a difference between science and hysteria. There are psychological events like stress that impacts menses and other factors that one has to exclude when it comes to interfering with menses.
Oh great, the good old "Let's prescribe an antidepressant for you since you are complaining about female problems." Women know their bodies & they know their periods. They are not sufferring from stress. It's not all in their heads.
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Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy
I haven't seen any clear definition of what is considered a heavy painful period.
The women said so. They get to define that.
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Originally Posted by NoMansLands
Yep. People start reading various sites and looking up those 6 women who experienced clots (one died) after the J&J vaccine and then become afraid. Same with autism. Everybody wants somebody to blame, it's an emotional reaction.
They are INVESTIGATING 6 cases. It's never been said that there were ONLY 6 cases. Why is it that women reporting a physical symptom are being blamed for having an emotional reaction?
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Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy
Not being a women makes me more objective in dealing with subjective symptoms that are common to women.
That's not been our experience.
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There isn't a different standard for women vs men when it comes to science.
Actually & unfortunately, there really is.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Should be simple enough to study. Take a group of women and do platelet counts before and after the vaccine.
Before & after the vaccine plus before & after the period. And an H&H too.
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Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy
Where in there does it only apply to women only? In the context with the topic that we are talking about where does one find male platelets vs female platelets to explain the bleeding? Why are most of the clots with the J&J vaccine in females and not males? Is the vaccine sexiest? Do you think that bleeding only occurs in women during menses and no bleeding should occur in men because men don't have a period? You think the vaccine very specifically targets the uterus and causes it to bleed excessively and nothing else especially not males? You are limiting it the uterus and concentrating it on the uterus and not i.
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Originally Posted by DKM
Avoiding COVID 19 vaccines may cause longer, heavier, more painful, permanent damage/death from covid.
What's your point? Heavy, painful periods can cause serious health problems & can be life-threatening. It warrants research.
Avoiding COVID 19 vaccines may cause longer, heavier, more painful, permanent damage/death from covid.
Does that mean that this shouldn’t be researched? Some women have periods so heavy as it is that they require iron supplementation or even IV infusions. Certainly doing more research would help these women and their providers prepare for the possibility of even heavier periods... or a further examination to see whether one vaccine could have fewer side effects in this area than the others.
I think it’s just frustrating to women to bring up valid concerns and then receive tons of mansplaining comments about how it is not a issue worth studying or exploring.
That standard applies to Twitter, faceBook and Instagram but doesn't apply to medical science. There has to be well defined objective criteria and I already mentioned one and that being the number of tampons. Right or wrong that is one that is used. Here's another one,
"Menorrhagia is menstrual bleeding that lasts more than 7 days. It can also be bleeding that is very heavy. How do you know if you have heavy bleeding? If you need to change your tampon or pad after less than 2 hours or you pass clots the size of a quarter or larger, that is heavy bleeding. If you have this type of bleeding, you should see a doctor."
That wasn't defined by any particular women. That number is defined by looking at a large number of women and then establishing ranges by researchers. You can't have everybody decide for themselves what is heavy or not because you lose all control over the research and research needs to limit the variables. If they don't the research is trash.
In order to have scientific advancement one must give up the subjective point of view that it is my uterus therefore I get to define what everybody else should be and men should have no say on anything to do with my uterus. It isn't a personal rights issue. It's not even a uterus issue but a systemic issue with regards to bleeding.
So rather than researching it from a personal rights issue and women's issue that is proprietary to women only lets make it what it should be and that is a bleeding disorder issue. It should be proposed as such because the cause and effect will be found systemically throughout the body and not just the uterus and also not just women. Women are reporting it supposedly because of their susceptibility during their menses. The importance of what I just said is that it impacts the testing that is needed in order to explain and prove the association between bleeding and the vaccine. None of the tests are specific for the uterus and I mean none. One needs to rule out a list of bleeding causes both congenital and acquired and I already mentioned one which was VWD.
If you say that it is abnormal then it needs to be studied in the laboratory I can tell you from my years of experience as a past hematology supervisor that has done numerous extensive hemostasis studies and treating and assessing bleeding status from the trauma room to the GYN emergencies that no test will be specific to the uterus. Bleeding time, clotting time, TEG, PT, PTT, platelet counts, platelet antibodies, platelet receptor inhibition, Specific factor assays, heparin induced thrombocytopenia, HLA antibodies directed at platelets all are not specific to the uterus. That's the only way that the condition well be characterized and diagnostic criteria set up as to what defines it from something else. Clotting disorders are the same exact thing. Clotting doesn't even have anything to do with the uterus. Do women get to define what a brain clot is or isn't? That's not how medicine works. That's how Twitter works.
You can have dysfunctional uterine bleeding but that is all anatomical rather than problems with hemostasis and clotting.
Does that mean that this shouldn’t be researched? Some women have periods so heavy as it is that they require iron supplementation or even IV infusions. Certainly doing more research would help these women and their providers prepare for the possibility of even heavier periods... or a further examination to see whether one vaccine could have fewer side effects in this area than the others.
I think it’s just frustrating to women to bring up valid concerns and then receive tons of mansplaining comments about how it is not a issue worth studying or exploring.
I was having symptoms of congestive heart failure & had to have 9 units of blood transfused over a year & a half due to heavy periods. Heavy periods are definitely a valid concern.
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Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy
That standard applies to Twitter, faceBook and Instagram but doesn't apply to medical science. There has to be well defined objective criteria and I already mentioned one and that being the number of tampons. Right or wrong that is one that is used. Here's another one,
"Menorrhagia is menstrual bleeding that lasts more than 7 days. It can also be bleeding that is very heavy. How do you know if you have heavy bleeding? If you need to change your tampon or pad after less than 2 hours or you pass clots the size of a quarter or larger, that is heavy bleeding. If you have this type of bleeding, you should see a doctor."
That wasn't defined by any particular women. That number is defined by looking at a large number of women and then establishing ranges by researchers. You can't have everybody decide for themselves what is heavy or not because you lose all control over the research and research needs to limit the variables. If they don't the research is trash.
In order to have scientific advancement one must give up the subjective point of view that it is my uterus therefore I get to define what everybody else should be and men should have no say on anything to do with my uterus. It isn't a personal rights issue. It's not even a uterus issue but a systemic issue with regards to bleeding.
So rather than researching it from a personal rights issue and women's issue that is proprietary to women only lets make it what it should be and that is a bleeding disorder issue. It should be proposed as such because the cause and effect will be found systemically throughout the body and not just the uterus and also not just women. Women are reporting it supposedly because of their susceptibility during their menses. The importance of what I just said is that it impacts the testing that is needed in order to explain and prove the association between bleeding and the vaccine. None of the tests are specific for the uterus and I mean none. One needs to rule out a list of bleeding causes both congenital and acquired and I already mentioned one which was VWD.
If you say that it is abnormal then it needs to be studied in the laboratory I can tell you from my years of experience as a past hematology supervisor that has done numerous extensive hemostasis studies and treating and assessing bleeding status from the trauma room to the GYN emergencies that no test will be specific to the uterus. Bleeding time, clotting time, TEG, PT, PTT, platelet counts, platelet antibodies, platelet receptor inhibition, Specific factor assays, heparin induced thrombocytopenia, HLA antibodies directed at platelets all are not specific to the uterus. That's the only way that the condition well be characterized and diagnostic criteria set up as to what defines it from something else. Clotting disorders are the same exact thing. Clotting doesn't even have anything to do with the uterus. Do women get to define what a brain clot is or isn't? That's not how medicine works. That's how Twitter works.
You can have dysfunctional uterine bleeding but that is all anatomical rather than problems with hemostasis and clotting.
I don't need to do a tampon count to know what heavy bleeding for ME is. It will be something different for every woman.
Menstruating women might be the canary in the coal mine. Doesn't sound like something that should be dismissed with lectures about tampon counts, "hysteria" & "emotional responses".
I was having symptoms of congestive heart failure & had to have 9 units of blood transfused over a year & a half due to heavy periods. Heavy periods are definitely a valid concern.
I don't need to do a tampon count to know what heavy bleeding for ME is. It will be something different for every woman.
Menstruating women might be the canary in the coal mine. Doesn't sound like something that should be dismissed with lectures about tampon counts, "hysteria" & "emotional responses".
As mentioned in previous posts all women with heavy periods need to be evaluated regardless of vaccine status. As far as heavy "periods" being a valid concern then see a doctor about it. The women doing the research stated that it was only a short lived effect of only lasting one period not periods. Just the first period right after the vaccine is being alleged. One does not become iron deficient after one heavy period only. She also stated that she is not anti vaccine which to me means that she wants people to take the vaccine. Others like you might assume something that isn't proven and not get the vaccine which would be a mistake.
As far as the tampon count then something similar will be used to assess blood loss. The standard that will be used will not be different for every women. It will be one standard used for all. The more exceptions ME one has the less meaningful the research will be.
Objective criteria is needed rather than taking somebodies word for it. That type of research that has no standards is useless. That's problem if you want to be a part of research as I am sure they will ask you specifically one or the other with regards to the amount of bleeding. I anybody insists on not going by an objective standard like the number of tampons then they will probably get thrown out of the study.
I was having symptoms of congestive heart failure & had to have 9 units of blood transfused over a year & a half due to heavy periods. Heavy periods are definitely a valid concern.
I don't need to do a tampon count to know what heavy bleeding for ME is. It will be something different for every woman.
Menstruating women might be the canary in the coal mine. Doesn't sound like something that should be dismissed with lectures about tampon counts, "hysteria" & "emotional responses".
If you go to the 1st Reddit link and read some of the comments, you'll see a lot who are on birth control that were not due to start it for weeks, have it within days of the vaccine, or people with Mirena that don't typically have one are now having one. There's also women newly into menopause who started bleeding again, so something is up. Then there was one woman who had heavy bleeding for 25 days.
The last time I looked, there were over 20,000 women who submitted their info. I'm sure it's gone up since then.
I just hope that whatever info she has she will bring up to the vaccine manufacturers so they can do their own study.
As mentioned in previous posts all women with heavy periods need to be evaluated regardless of vaccine status. As far as heavy "periods" being a valid concern then see a doctor about it. The women doing the research stated that it was only a short lived effect of only lasting one period not periods. Just the first period right after the vaccine is being alleged. One does not become iron deficient after one heavy period only. She also stated that she is not anti vaccine which to me means that she wants people to take the vaccine. Others like you might assume something that isn't proven and not get the vaccine which would be a mistake.
As far as the tampon count then something similar will be used to assess blood loss. The standard that will be used will not be different for every women. It will be one standard used for all. The more exceptions ME one has the less meaningful the research will be.
Objective criteria is needed rather than taking somebodies word for it. That type of research that has no standards is useless. That's problem if you want to be a part of research as I am sure they will ask you specifically one or the other with regards to the amount of bleeding. I anybody insists on not going by an objective standard like the number of tampons then they will probably get thrown out of the study.
The whole point is that periods are heavier after the vaccine. Each woman has a different period experience. I don’t usually get bleeding other than minimal spotting but had to use a pad after the vaccine. For ME, that is heavier. Again, if you already have the issue of becoming iron deficient, having an even heavier period is something to prepare for with your doctor.
It is attitudes like this that are part of the reason that research into female hormonal issues is lacking. Just because a woman has symptoms that cannot be measured objectively, like a painful period, menstrual migraines, mood changes, does not make them not worth studying.
Lab guy, I understand why people would be hesitant to bring attention to a possible bad side effect. At the very least women deserve to know whether or not they should be on the lookout for this symptom. Vaccine hesitancy can and is an issue but sweeping legitimate side effects under the rug for the sake of vaccine distribution is what causes people to not get it, they feel like they are being lied to. When thousands of women report a symptom and people in the medical community tell them they are just hysterical they take to the internet boards and make sure their voices are heard, which makes things worse.
If Pfizer or Moderna came out and said "we have noticed a quickly resolving but serious side effect of the vaccine as a short lived heavier, more painful or longer period than normal after the vaccine, we are looking into it but it appears to resolve itself relatively quickly and while it is inconvenient it is not life threatening or dangerous. Please report it as a side effect if it happens to you" people would be a lot less likely to refuse the vaccine and more likely to report the symptom if it occurs.
A woman who experiences her period every month is the only person qualified to say whether her particular period was worse than previously. Women are not claiming they all meet the scientific definition of menorrhagia, they are reporting that their particular period is worse than it was the months preceding the vaccine. If enough women report this then the vaccine manufacturers have a responsibility to make it an official side effect just as we all know that we are probably going to feel sick the day after and have a sore arm.
Consider if a woman wakes up a week after and has a substantial amount of bleeding such as enough to cover her and her bed clothes in blood. Its 2 weeks before her period is due and she has never had bleeding like this. She is likely to panic. But if she knows this is an expected side effect she will be on the lookout and will adjust accordingly. Men can and are perfectly capable of being doctors for women objectively but telling women their symptoms are hysteria or stress is not objective, it is not helpful and its downright disrespectful to the women who are experiencing it.
And while men and women are held to the standards of science no legitimate doctor or scientist can say that men and women react equally to medications and in this case men physically can not experience the side effect in question but that does not make the women any less legitimate.
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