How would a doctor treat low testosterone? (overweight, exercise, muscle)
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Watch this video which links the connection of Low D and the immune system also obesity and age plays a role the ability to absorb, and create D.
I would rather be presented with the actual studies and again not opinion pieces. The Vitamin D Council formed years ago was comprised of vitamin D manufacturers which doesn't bother me just so long as they present the evidence and studies that support claims.
The strength of the evidence is first and foremost interventional double blind random testing. Less weaker evidence is retrospective survey evidence making associations but not proving cause or whether or not it can be altered with interventions. The weakest form of evidence is expert authoritative opinion. One resorts to that when there is a complete lack of evidence.
When asked Dr Fauci stated that he takes vitamin D especially now for COVID. I started taking it about five years ago. Where's the beef though?
I cited the studies that the video was talking about and released within the past three months. They didn't support the use of vitamin D to prevent COVID as the results were mixed based on race which leads me to believe if it were solely vitamin D then there shouldn't be racial differences. It didn't benefit whites in the study in preventing COVID illness. As far as actual sick patients and there again it failed to help those with mild and severe COVID infections. One can argue why it didn't work, not enough vitamin D or dosage etc but the fact is it didn't work in spite of a beautiful presentation on why it should have worked.
Show me the money and less talking. Here's the money.
"According to the study, they found that patients who were supplemented were less likely to be mechanically ventilated or to die following admission, although the finding was not statistically significant."
Heres another study from JAMA which is the one I cited earlier.
"The study, published yesterday by Igor Murai, PhD, a Sao Paul rheumatologist, and colleagues, reported that hospital stay was a median 7.0 days for both those in the intervention and the placebo group, and while there were differences up to 8.4 percentage points across in-hospital mortality, intensive care unit (ICU) admission, and mechanical ventilation needs, they were all statistically not significant."
The presenter in the video is far from neutral but a promoter. Anyone can see that. The interviewer is also biased and anyone can see that. I am willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt until studies come out proving otherwise and it appears that is what is happening.
If you are vitamin D deficient then go for it but it doesn't appear that it helps with COVID.
I would rather be presented with the actual studies and again not opinion pieces. The Vitamin D Council formed years ago was comprised of vitamin D manufacturers which doesn't bother me just so long as they present the evidence and studies that support claims.
The strength of the evidence is first and foremost interventional double blind random testing. Less weaker evidence is retrospective survey evidence making associations but not proving cause or whether or not it can be altered with interventions. The weakest form of evidence is expert authoritative opinion. One resorts to that when there is a complete lack of evidence.
When asked Dr Fauci stated that he takes vitamin D especially now for COVID. I started taking it about five years ago. Where's the beef though?
I cited the studies that the video was talking about and released within the past three months. They didn't support the use of vitamin D to prevent COVID as the results were mixed based on race which leads me to believe if it were solely vitamin D then there shouldn't be racial differences. It didn't benefit whites in the study in preventing COVID illness. As far as actual sick patients and there again it failed to help those with mild and severe COVID infections. One can argue why it didn't work, not enough vitamin D or dosage etc but the fact is it didn't work in spite of a beautiful presentation on why it should have worked.
Show me the money and less talking. Here's the money.
"According to the study, they found that patients who were supplemented were less likely to be mechanically ventilated or to die following admission, although the finding was not statistically significant."
Heres another study from JAMA which is the one I cited earlier.
"The study, published yesterday by Igor Murai, PhD, a Sao Paul rheumatologist, and colleagues, reported that hospital stay was a median 7.0 days for both those in the intervention and the placebo group, and while there were differences up to 8.4 percentage points across in-hospital mortality, intensive care unit (ICU) admission, and mechanical ventilation needs, they were all statistically not significant."
The presenter in the video is far from neutral but a promoter. Anyone can see that. The interviewer is also biased and anyone can see that. I am willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt until studies come out proving otherwise and it appears that is what is happening.
If you are vitamin D deficient then go for it but it doesn't appear that it helps with COVID.
The conclusion made from patients with Covid who are hospitalized is not really a good source of data. They need to compare people who tested positive for Covid had minor symptoms, and recovered on their own verses the ones who had to be hospitalized. What were the D levels of those people is there a correlation?
Personally when I raised my D I saw a difference in the number of respiratory infections I was getting per year which was much less after raising my D. This was going back 4-5 years.
If you want to really go deep into this watch this video he list all the studies he is talking as well in the video description. I know you won't spend 5 min watching this so maybe someone else would be interested in it.
The conclusion made from patients with Covid who are hospitalized is not really a good source of data. They need to compare people who tested positive for Covid had minor symptoms, and recovered on their own verses the ones who had to be hospitalized. What were the D levels of those people is there a correlation?
Personally when I raised my D I saw a difference in the number of respiratory infections I was getting per year which was much less after raising my D. This was going back 4-5 years.
If you want to really go deep into this watch this video he list all the studies he is talking as well in the video description. I know you won't spend 5 min watching this so maybe someone else would be interested in it.
That's the problem with promotors of drugs and vitamins. Hospitalized patients are not a good source? Yes they are because i want to know if it helps combat COVID in hospitalized patients. I want to know if it helps moderate to severe patients and I want to know if it helps mild cases and I want to know if it helps prevent COVID sickness. That is all done with studies and not with promotors of Youtube videos. Youtube is not a valid source. You know why people are making videos? Because they are trying very hard to convince people and not so much doctors. Doctors read the studies and don't need Youtube videos to tell what the studies are. When the studies don't turn out the way they wanted them to then excuses still to pour in. Hospitalized patients are not a good source. They used the wrong concentration of vitamin D so of course it didn't work or they used the wrong isoform of vitamin D. You ask them for studies and they cite associations.
As far as the 8 take home messages about vitamin D and COVID as I predicted they all have to do with low levels of vitamin D in COVID patients. He mentioned none in which vitamin D was given to patients to change the outcome which is why you said hospitalized patients are not good study patients.
Please understand the difference between association and causation. They make no distinction in the video. They also equate the mechanisms with regards to other viruses and this is not the same virus.
Patients dying because of low levels of vitamin D is implied and therefore the hypothesis is that if you give people sick with COVID they will live. That is what is being implied. They are selling the theory that their theory can not be wrong and base it on associations. That is just poor science. All COVID patients are dying in hospitals therefore hospitals are killing all patients and therefore if you don't send patients to a hospital then they will not die. Plain logic right? Why not assume that sick people have low levels of vitamin D and they don't go out in the sun and because they are sick and not just low on vitamin D they stand a higher chance of dying. Maybe the illness made them vitamin D deficient and the illness killed them in conjunction with COVID. There are many biological markers of illness out there. They were making many claims about magnesium out there saying 50% of the population was deficient and if you look at magnesium levels and COVID deaths you would probably see the same association.
Nobody cares about any of that and all they care about is does it help and that is done with studies not simply demonstrating associations because that is very poor science but with interventional studies.
I saw the same thing with blood types and how an initial report stated the obversataonal differences in ABO type and COVID disease and an interesting theory with regards to that but that was a small study and subsequent larger studies fizzled and so throw all that stuff out. The story about Pepcid started the same way with a retrospective observational study showing 48% reduction in mortality and ventilation. A larger study releases in February of 2021 showed no benefit for COVID outcomes.
Yes I took both vitamin D and Pepcid but which was coincidental but in reality I seriously doubt they have any effect on outcomes.
That's the problem with promotors of drugs and vitamins. Hospitalized patients are not a good source? Yes they are because i want to know if it helps combat COVID in hospitalized patients. I want to know if it helps moderate to severe patients and I want to know if it helps mild cases and I want to know if it helps prevent COVID sickness. That is all done with studies and not with promotors of Youtube videos. Youtube is not a valid source. You know why people are making videos? Because they are trying very hard to convince people and not so much doctors. Doctors read the studies and don't need Youtube videos to tell what the studies are. When the studies don't turn out the way they wanted them to then excuses still to pour in. Hospitalized patients are not a good source. They used the wrong concentration of vitamin D so of course it didn't work or they used the wrong isoform of vitamin D. You ask them for studies and they cite associations.
As far as the 8 take home messages about vitamin D and COVID as I predicted they all have to do with low levels of vitamin D in COVID patients. He mentioned none in which vitamin D was given to patients to change the outcome which is why you said hospitalized patients are not good study patients.
Please understand the difference between association and causation. They make no distinction in the video. They also equate the mechanisms with regards to other viruses and this is not the same virus.
Patients dying because of low levels of vitamin D is implied and therefore the hypothesis is that if you give people sick with COVID they will live. That is what is being implied. They are selling the theory that their theory can not be wrong and base it on associations. That is just poor science. All COVID patients are dying in hospitals therefore hospitals are killing all patients and therefore if you don't send patients to a hospital then they will not die. Plain logic right? Why not assume that sick people have low levels of vitamin D and they don't go out in the sun and because they are sick and not just low on vitamin D they stand a higher chance of dying. Maybe the illness made them vitamin D deficient and the illness killed them in conjunction with COVID. There are many biological markers of illness out there. They were making many claims about magnesium out there saying 50% of the population was deficient and if you look at magnesium levels and COVID deaths you would probably see the same association.
Nobody cares about any of that and all they care about is does it help and that is done with studies not simply demonstrating associations because that is very poor science but with interventional studies.
I saw the same thing with blood types and how an initial report stated the obversataonal differences in ABO type and COVID disease and an interesting theory with regards to that but that was a small study and subsequent larger studies fizzled and so throw all that stuff out. The story about Pepcid started the same way with a retrospective observational study showing 48% reduction in mortality and ventilation. A larger study releases in February of 2021 showed no benefit for COVID outcomes.
Yes I took both vitamin D and Pepcid but which was coincidental but in reality I seriously doubt they have any effect on outcomes.
The logic is if you have low D and your immune system is weak higher chance of becoming much more sick, and end up being hospitalized. Where one who has a strong immune system will experience minor Covid symptoms. Attempting to use D on someone where their weak immune system has been overwhelmed is too late past the point to do anything about it. The entire argument is based on who ends up with severe covid illness based on a weak immune system caused by low Vitamin D. Why can't understand that????
The logic is if you have low D and your immune system is weak higher chance of becoming much more sick, and end up being hospitalized. Where one who has a strong immune system will experience minor Covid symptoms. Attempting to use D on someone where their weak immune system has been overwhelmed is too late past the point to do anything about it. The entire argument is based on who ends up with severe covid illness based on a weak immune system caused by low Vitamin D. Why can't understand that????
The goal is to find something to treat the disease. It isn't to find a hundred low levels of biologicals and biochemicals and then assume they ended up in the hospital because their values were low or high. People that are sick have low levels on some things and high values on others with is why they are sick. Sickness will alter biochemicals. There's sick syndrome with regards to thyroid status and there's a shutdown biologically with regards to metabolism. People have low thyroid hormones when sick are we going to say that if we give thyroid hormones to patients who are sick with COVID will make them better simply because the levels are low? The iron levels are low in chronic and acute illness and some say that low iron blood levels makes one more susceptible to gram negative rod bacteria are we going to give iron to people in iron lock down trying to treat the anemia to make them feel better? The goal is to treat the disease and the levels will get better on their own.
You have given me a lot of reasons why you think it should work but you haven't given me anything showing that it does work and I don't think you can tell the difference.
Vitamin D levels have seasonal fluctuations with the winter being worse for obvious reasons. There was no let down on COVID activity during the summer as was expected. What does that tell you?
The last thing we haven't talked about and that is concept of therapeutic effects unrelated to reference ranges and deficiency states and uses vitamin D as a drug rather than treating a deficiency state. Patients are getting vitamin D regardless of their blood levels. Again there's various reasons for this the biggest being the tests are less than optimal with lack of standardization and lack of an adequate reference range inclusive of seasonal variance. it is one of the poorest quality tests done in the laboratory and you would be nuts to depend on it. The quality is so poor that the College of American Pathologists do not have a pass fail grading on the test. They send out samples for blind testing and just look to see the state of testing with regards to accuracy and precision. With all of the other CAP samples with hundreds of discrete tests sent to laboratories for blind testing, if you fail the test then you are not allowed to perform that test until you can correct the deficiencies. That doesn't happen with vitamin D testing and that shows you how screwed up it is. Luckily one is looking for gross abnormalities.
"No "firm conclusions"
While these studies raised hopes among some researchers, others are skeptical, noting that most of these are observational studies, not the gold-standard randomized, controlled trials.
Much of the available evidence only shows association — not causation — and even those results are mixed, said Walter Willett, a professor of nutrition and epidemiology at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health."
I am surprised at the lack of skepticism after hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin and even the one FDA approved drug that showed less than optimal activity against COVID but hyped to no end.
How I fix it... Nofap, no screens, meditation...basically low testosterone is a form of stimulation overload. Mindfulness, weight lifting, exercise in general, good diet, all those things people don't want to do. Excessive sympathetic nervous system activity lowers testosterone. Ying and yang.... Quality sleep, good lifestyle habits....
The goal is to find something to treat the disease. It isn't to find a hundred low levels of biologicals and biochemicals and then assume they ended up in the hospital because their values were low or high. People that are sick have low levels on some things and high values on others with is why they are sick. Sickness will alter biochemicals. There's sick syndrome with regards to thyroid status and there's a shutdown biologically with regards to metabolism. People have low thyroid hormones when sick are we going to say that if we give thyroid hormones to patients who are sick with COVID will make them better simply because the levels are low? The iron levels are low in chronic and acute illness and some say that low iron blood levels makes one more susceptible to gram negative rod bacteria are we going to give iron to people in iron lock down trying to treat the anemia to make them feel better? The goal is to treat the disease and the levels will get better on their own.
You have given me a lot of reasons why you think it should work but you haven't given me anything showing that it does work and I don't think you can tell the difference.
Vitamin D levels have seasonal fluctuations with the winter being worse for obvious reasons. There was no let down on COVID activity during the summer as was expected. What does that tell you?
The last thing we haven't talked about and that is concept of therapeutic effects unrelated to reference ranges and deficiency states and uses vitamin D as a drug rather than treating a deficiency state. Patients are getting vitamin D regardless of their blood levels. Again there's various reasons for this the biggest being the tests are less than optimal with lack of standardization and lack of an adequate reference range inclusive of seasonal variance. it is one of the poorest quality tests done in the laboratory and you would be nuts to depend on it. The quality is so poor that the College of American Pathologists do not have a pass fail grading on the test. They send out samples for blind testing and just look to see the state of testing with regards to accuracy and precision. With all of the other CAP samples with hundreds of discrete tests sent to laboratories for blind testing, if you fail the test then you are not allowed to perform that test until you can correct the deficiencies. That doesn't happen with vitamin D testing and that shows you how screwed up it is. Luckily one is looking for gross abnormalities.
"No "firm conclusions"
While these studies raised hopes among some researchers, others are skeptical, noting that most of these are observational studies, not the gold-standard randomized, controlled trials.
Much of the available evidence only shows association — not causation — and even those results are mixed, said Walter Willett, a professor of nutrition and epidemiology at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health."
I am surprised at the lack of skepticism after hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin and even the one FDA approved drug that showed less than optimal activity against COVID but hyped to no end.
The first video I linked he gives you all the studies he is pulling his information you didn't watch more then 5 minutes of it jump to conclusions can't accept your wrong. Look at his creds over you a lab tech LOL
Roger Seheult, MD is Co-Founder of MedCram and an Associate Professor at the University of California, Riverside School of Medicine and Assistant Prof. at Loma Linda University School of Medicine. He is Quadruple Board Certified: Internal Medicine, Pulmonary Disease, Critical Care, & Sleep Medicine
The first video I linked he gives you all the studies he is pulling his information you didn't watch more then 5 minutes of it jump to conclusions can't accept your wrong. Look at his creds over you a lab tech LOL
Roger Seheult, MD is Co-Founder of MedCram and an Associate Professor at the University of California, Riverside School of Medicine and Assistant Prof. at Loma Linda University School of Medicine. He is Quadruple Board Certified: Internal Medicine, Pulmonary Disease, Critical Care, & Sleep Medicine
This is my last post on vitamin D in this thread. You are now relying on authoritative truths rather than citing the evidence. If you can't cite the evidence and rely on videos to tell a story for a half hour before getting down to the question then that tells you that they don't have the evidence. If you rely on credentials in an effort to promote something without the evidence then you have Dr Atlas who was slammed by Stanford University colleagues who they said was not an infectious disease specialist and basically a clown pretending to know something that they objected to.
If the evidence is there it would be seen by all and there would be a consensus and you wouldn't need individuals making Youtube videos.
"YouTube Virus Misinformation Fight Trips on Drug Touted by ...https://www.bloomberg.com › news › articles › youtub...
May 28, 2020 — YouTube deleted five of the MedCram clips, including two about the controversial drug hydroxychloroquine"
No excuse for that. That's pure BS. To have your videos taken down because of misinformation is all I need to know about him and to stay away from that baloney. I suggest you do the same. That's crossing the line not with one little toe but with both feet.
My doctor gave me testosterone shots for a while, and then the level stayed in the normal range.
My boss got testosterone shots once a month for years. He retired and I havent seen him in a while so I dont know if he was ever able to wean off the shots, but he had been taking them for many years and never mentioned going off of them.
My boss got testosterone shots once a month for years. He retired and I havent seen him in a while so I dont know if he was ever able to wean off the shots, but he had been taking them for many years and never mentioned going off of them.
Why did he mention going on them?
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