Covid threats despite vaccine (specialists, removed, broke, respiratory)

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by wp169

England is reporting 10% of their Delta variant hospitalizations are fully vaccinated, so they are not safe from
covid.

Today I was in a U.S. car dealership, I was told on the phone the employees were wearing masks. I walk into the showroom with a double mask and none of their employees had masks on, but most of the customers did! The greeter hooks me up with a salesperson with no mask, and I immediately told her I was very uncomfortable talking to her about cars because she has no mask. She told me she was vaccinated so by state law she didn't have to wear a mask indoors. I told her it doesn't matter, she could get the Delta variant anyway and transmit it to me (I'm unvaccinated). She offered to put a mask on, but i walked out disgusted because I was lied to during the phone conversation about the masks and a few other details concerning the car purchase.

At some point, we have to get back to something resembling normal.

I've been fully vaccinated since 1/8. I wear a mask where legally required or socially expected. A mask, generally, is a minor inconvenience. I'll probably mask again during the fall and winter or if there are increased outbreaks. I would suspect I'll need a booster shot in the fall or winter.

With the recent CDC guidance and loosening of restrictions overall, I don't expect anyone to be wearing a mask anywhere but medical settings, or close quarters, like prisons or a nursing home.

I am not going to mask in public spaces on the very slight chance that I, as a vaccinated person, could be infected, and transmit it to you, since you're unvaccinated. I'm at low odds of serious illness or worse as a vaccinated person.

Vaccination is free and widely available at your convenience. Unless someone has a legitimate reason why they cannot be vaccinated, you're operating at your own risk. If you cannot be vaccinated, you have to protect yourself - the world cannot be expected to stop to protect the unvaccinated now that vaccines are widely available.

[Deserterer]

Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound

I think it could. It does not mean it was released on purpose.

When someone who studies this sort of thing says we have a virus with characteristics that have never been seen before that opens up many questions. And since the explanations from China have been less than transparent we have to look at all possibilities. If there was a virus as deadly as ebola that was easy to transmit without symptoms that is the end of the human race. There is really no more important question in the world than how did this happen.

Medical Lab Guy said "there has never been in the history of mankind a pandemic with a very high asymptomatic spread of transmission." You said that it was a profound statement and presumably imbued it with some meaning, but it isn't that profound. Its just a plain simple fact, and its neither biologically surprising or improbable. Even if we knew the statistical odds were small of this virus developing naturally, that doesn't mean it didn't. And from everything I've read so far that just isn't the case. Most experts think its more likely to have evolved naturally. It will likely be a number of years before we know exactly where it came from, as it was with SARS.

[Jstarling]

Originally Posted by glass_of_merlot

As a healthcare worker I disagree with you. Point being . All healthcare workers do not feel the same.

You don’t think the Delta variants are intensifying? Please share your insight.

[Medical Lab Guy]

Originally Posted by suzy_q2010

Johns Hopkins University also did a simulation, utilizing a coronavirus model, in October 2019. Since the Gates Foundation was involved it was used to fuel conspiracy theories that the virus was deliberately released.

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity....s-release.html

The list of players is interesting.

That's difficult to convey and will probably be viewed as a timely historical prophecy.

The WHO stated,

"The WHO has begun to caution against such complacency. In 2015 it introduced a “priority diseases” list, reviewed annually. The purpose of the list is not to forecast which pathogen is most likely to cause the next outbreak, but to highlight where increased research and development is most warranted. In 2018 the WHO included “Disease X” in its list to focus researchers’ attention on pandemic risks posed by diseases that cannot currently be transmitted to humans, or transmitted only inefficiently."

For others out there I was paraphrasing Dr Fauci with the statement that we have never seen a bug that has such a high asymptomatic rate of transmission causing a pandemic so they weren't expecting it. There hasn't been any contradictions from other epidemiologists or infectious disease specialist so I presume that to be the case. My interpretation from WHO was to research those bugs that can not be transmitted to humans but might be in the future or those bugs that now are only transmitted inefficiently but can gain transmissibility. That's why the lab in China was setup and now the WHO, Gates and all viral labs studying these viruses in nature are prime targets for conspiracy.

They are going to have to find the natural reservoir in order to stop future outbreaks and to stop the conspiracy theorists.

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy

That's difficult to convey and will probably be viewed as a timely historical prophecy.

The WHO stated,

"The WHO has begun to caution against such complacency. In 2015 it introduced a “priority diseases” list, reviewed annually. The purpose of the list is not to forecast which pathogen is most likely to cause the next outbreak, but to highlight where increased research and development is most warranted. In 2018 the WHO included “Disease X” in its list to focus researchers’ attention on pandemic risks posed by diseases that cannot currently be transmitted to humans, or transmitted only inefficiently."

For others out there I was paraphrasing Dr Fauci with the statement that we have never seen a bug that has such a high asymptomatic rate of transmission causing a pandemic so they weren't expecting it. There hasn't been any contradictions from other epidemiologists or infectious disease specialist so I presume that to be the case. My interpretation from WHO was to research those bugs that can not be transmitted to humans but might be in the future or those bugs that now are only transmitted inefficiently but can gain transmissibility. That's why the lab in China was setup and now the WHO, Gates and all viral labs studying these viruses in nature are prime targets for conspiracy.

They are going to have to find the natural reservoir in order to stop future outbreaks and to stop the conspiracy theorists.

As far as the reservoir is concerned, for SARS it was bats. That is why coronaviruses collected from bats are being studied and why the US supported such research.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

Asia knew all along that masks were effective. I'd be curious to see what you've been saying the past year abotu the government's response given this repeated claim of "not enough information" for trained epidemiologists to have seen it coming and be prepared.

From April 2020
Burch pointed to a Cochrane Review -- a systemic analysis of published studies on a given topic -- which found strong evidence during the 2003 SARS epidemic in support of wearing masks. One study of community transmission in Beijing found that "consistently wearing a mask in public was associated with a 70% reduction in the risk of catching SARS."

SARS, like Covid-19, is a respiratory illnesses caused by the same family of viruses called coronavirus.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/asia/...sMXyFCh41sVfds


Another thing the above article demonstrates is that CDC was lagging not leading. They only changed their recommendation after everybody and their brother had learned from the media that masks work.

"Asia" didn't have hardly any cases early on, so what they were doing or not, isn't much of an issue. IIRC the 2nd outbreak after Wuhan was Italy.

BTW, most Asian countries have mask wearers ALL the time, even when SARs or Covid19 are not circulating. Asian tourists in Honolulu almost always wore masks while visiting. It's SOP for them.

[Mikala43]

Being contagious before showing symptoms is NOT "something never seen before."

[CoastieTX]

Originally Posted by Lizap

The point is the vaccines provide much less protection against these variants. Research out of Israel shows that some people who have been vaccinated are getting the Delta variant, and being hospitalized and even dying. But, as I said, it IS your choice to wear or not wear a mask.

I’ve heard about this in Israel, but consider this:

As a hypothetical example, let’s say the vaccine is 95% effective, and 100 percent of the population in a given area receives it. 5% will still test positive and sicken. Therefore, you could also say 100% of the people who were sickened were vaccinated.

Without more context, and closer analysis of the numbers, it’s easy to arrive at a false conclusion. I do know Israel has a very high vaccination rate. It only follows that the few who are still getting sick will likely have been vaccinated.

I think the most important statistic to focus on right now is that, at least here in the United States, the hospitals are reporting that the overwhelming majority of their COVID patients are unvaccinated and that this is a preventable disease.

[Medical Lab Guy]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

Being contagious before showing symptoms is NOT "something never seen before."

Normally there's an incubation phase after a person gets infected and then a few days later once the viral load increases then one starts to see overt symptoms. Normally the person is infectious a few days before they exhibit symptoms. With serious killer viruses the person gets too sick to be walking about and they then succumb to severe illness ie ebola or SARS or MERS or Lassa. There's less community transmission because of the severity of infection preventing them from socializing etc.

The asymptomatic infection transmission I is talking about are the people who never get sick and yet are major contributors to transmission of COVID. We are referring to the fact that they have no symptoms and don't develop symptoms during the course of infection or the symptoms are so mild that they are ignored. This characteristic is dependent on the virus.

I don't remember what was said before but asymptomatic transmission as a major mode of transmission has never before seen in a pandemic. Again I was trying to paraphrase Fauci. This was said for the state of mind and not for the truth of the matter your honor. Dr Fauci was stating his frame of mind at the time. I have full confidence that if he has misspoke that he would have dissenting views form other medical professionals would have corrected him on factual matters.

There was a discussion of the two different situations on how the phrase asymptomatic infections were being used.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy

There was a discussion of the two different situations on how the phrase asymptomatic infections were being used.

That has been an on going problem. I wanted to take a moment to thank you for your posts.

I may have lost track of the thread.

Pre symptomatic spread is not unheard of.

Asymptomatic spread as the driver of a pandemic? Not that I have read about.

A while ago I had seen a "theory?" of the spread of covid, and it wasn't the typical (1 person infects 1.5 others (or whatever R0 was being used). It was more like 1 infected person out of 10 infected people were infecting 5 (for example) people, while the other 9 did not infect anyone.