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No, that is what I am worried her quote is being misinterpreted as, a signal that the vaccine has no benefit. How they did the study and who they studied makes a lot of difference. If all they studied were those with a positive COVID test for both vaccinated and none vaccinated and came up with equal viral loads then that means something. If they studied overall how many people vaccinated came down with a positive COVID test then that means something.
I am clueless as to how the study was done. My guess is that they tested people who had symptoms and then looked at the viral titers and found no difference in titers. That would make sense if the vaccine failed to generate an immune response then they would be similar to those who were not immunized.
The question is how effective is the vaccination in preventing transmission in those not having symptoms and how effective is it in preventing severe illness and death. The goals of the vaccine targets were on preventing severe illness and death. It wasn't preventing asymptomatic transmission.
Once the study is published then it would provide information to all. If it is not published then it is all hearsay crap. The information needs to be transparent for all to see and publication is the only way for that to happen.
We are simply guessing as to the implications of a study that isn't published and that makes it pointless.
Why did the CDC suddenly recommend that those who are vaccinated 1) mask up and 2) quarantine themselves if exposed?
How many dots need to be thrown out before people start connecting them?
The only studies that are published are those that show how great the vaccines are.
Any physician, scientist, researcher or other health care worker who dares ask a question or have a different viewpoint from the official vaccines are awesome, more vaccines are better, get ready for awesome boosters is censored, blocked, doxxed, suspended, and canceled.
They made it REALLY clear that a fair and balanced discussion is off the table.
Why did the CDC suddenly recommend that those who are vaccinated 1) mask up and 2) quarantine themselves if exposed?
How many dots need to be thrown out before people start connecting them?
The only studies that are published are those that show how great the vaccines are.
Any physician, scientist, researcher or other health care worker who dares ask a question or have a different viewpoint from the official vaccines are awesome, more vaccines are better, get ready for awesome boosters is censored, blocked, doxxed, suspended, and canceled.
They made it REALLY clear that a fair and balanced discussion is off the table.
As mentioned by many it was already known that the vaccines were not 100% effective in avoiding transmission and or hospitalization. The dots were already connected on day one when the vaccines came out. The goals were set for approving a vaccine under the EUA was preventing severe disease period.
What we are talking about are the numbers and if more people are transmitting then the CDC recommendations change. They change based on the evidence depending on the numbers. There was a significant change from the previous recommendation so they updated those recommendations based on the unpublished data.
We go by the studies and a consensus of what they show and then a consensus option is reached in order to make updated recommendations. The centers for Disease Control is the name of the organization that is responsible in stopping disease and in controlling disease and it does so with modern vaccines. The outlier deviants who oppose proven vaccines have nothing to offer in its place except accept the death and herd immunity that is being achieved by those not vaccinating. Recommending treatments without proven efficacy is all show.
The way you shut up somebody that is not fair and balanced is by doing a double blind randomized controlled study. You don't shut somebody up with biased studies. All the chronic complainers out there know that but they sure as hell don't do RCT's. Instead they offer none of that with lack of randomness, not blinded and no control group. Those people are interested in publicity and use token studies to promote their fantasies that they discovered a cure for COVID. They are not interested in the truth. Anyone under the sun can do a study and not just this country. The vaccine is international and so are the studies and regulatory government agencies.
Why did the CDC suddenly recommend that those who are vaccinated 1) mask up and 2) quarantine themselves if exposed?
How many dots need to be thrown out before people start connecting them?
The only studies that are published are those that show how great the vaccines are.
Any physician, scientist, researcher or other health care worker who dares ask a question or have a different viewpoint from the official vaccines are awesome, more vaccines are better, get ready for awesome boosters is censored, blocked, doxxed, suspended, and canceled.
They made it REALLY clear that a fair and balanced discussion is off the table.
There is no rational alternative to the fantastic vaccines presently on the table. What is on the table opposing the basic good sense of vaccines is mysticism, fear, hatred of reality, primitive religion, and confimed bias against science, reality, and reason.
Look at the vaccination map. The top 10 unvaccinated states are the heavily religious, heavily mystical, heavily irrational southern backwaters like Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, Arkansas, etc.
The opposition to vaccines is basically a product of Bible Belt Mysticism and hatred of reason and reality.
The vaccine situation is direct evidence of how badly religion harms humanity.
At this point, anti-vaxxers are intellectual terrorists.
Before covid, anti-vaxxers were off-the-wall kooks who were only hurting their children and themselves, and could be written off as irrelevant. But now, they have become an existential threat to all of us.
Covid will get rid of some of them, but in a free society, we need private organizations to mandate vaccines based on freedom of association. We need to NOT ASSOCIATE with anti-vaxxers. To do this, we need vaccine passports, and we need business and industry to step up to the plate and not employ or admit anti-vaxxers to participation or association.
The government cannot do this for us in a free society. We need to do this privately.
Last edited by Marc Paolella; 07-29-2021 at 04:36 AM..
There is no rational alternative to the fantastic vaccines presently on the table. What is on the table opposing the basic good sense of vaccines is mysticism, fear, hatred of reality, primitive religion, and confimed bias against science, reality, and reason.
Look at the vaccination map. The top 10 unvaccinated states are the heavily religious, heavily mystical, heavily irrational southern backwaters like Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, Arkansas, etc.
The opposition to vaccines is basically a product of Bible Belt Mysticism and hatred of reason and reality.
The vaccine situation is direct evidence of how badly religion harms humanity.
At this point, anti-vaxxers are intellectual terrorists.
Before covid, anti-vaxxers were off-the-wall kooks who were only hurting their children and themselves, and could be written off as irrelevant. But now, they have become an existential threat to all of us.
Covid will get rid of some of them, but in a free society, we need private organizations to mandate vaccines based on freedom of association. We need to NOT ASSOCIATE with anti-vaxxers. To do this, we need vaccine passports, and we need business and industry to step up to the plate and not employ or admit anti-vaxxers to participation or association.
The government cannot do this for us in a free society. We need to do this privately.
If people aren't vaccinated, I guess they should take other precautions as necessary or just choose to take their chances. Heck the same goes for the vaccinated, though our chances of actually getting sick, hospitalized, or dying of COVID are greatly reduced by the vaccine. I wear a mask pretty often, I am vaccinated, I socially distance, wash my hands often and use hand sanitizer, and I take multiple supplements. Not doing anything else at this point.
Same here Kathryn, but it appears you take a naive shot in the dark when you call these mitigative shots "vaccines", repeating purposeful propaganda.
It appears you also take a naive shot in the dark by stating that it is "common knowledge" that these mitigative shots mitigate the risk of infection and severity.
"Common" "knowledge" is these mitigative shots are "vaccines" and by themselves they are going to solve the problem.
They are not vaccines, and by themselves they are not going to solve the problem. They are mitigative shots of waning effectiveness, they help, they help some people more than others, and in any case it's not enough.
To solve the problem we would need to continue to do "all of the above" (restricting borders, social distancing, masking, washing hands and disinfecting, eating a better diet, exercising, enough sleep, more and better treatments, mitigative shots, etc.) for a longer period of time, maybe another year, perhaps longer, even if uncomfortable.
But, clearly, solving the problem is not good for business, well at least somebody's business, is it.
The US just came out of two 20-year wars in faraway lands, contained, never really got out of hand, good, very good, for business, well at least somebody's business.
I know you understand how this all works.
Anyway, keep doing what you're doing, the best you can.
Well if not that will be good news..but I just won't take AP's declaration that the vaccines are "safe and effective"
I am making a list of all the celebs that seem to be mysteriously "dying" of heart attacks or "in their sleep" -- I bet you by March it will be pretty convincing.
Quote:
How many dots need to be thrown out before people start connecting them?
They don't want to connect the dots because they know they are in danger and they don't want to admit that. My other favorite is "where is the evidence" but clearly when the medical people are unwilling to LOOK for evidence of danger then you obviously aren't going to find any.
At this point i am starting to wonder if the vaccines simply do not work (my#1 theory) or if they are wearing off after 6 months.
But clearly we are having MORE cases in the USA this July than last July.. thus, there is a serious problem. IMHO one reason they are rushing to force vaccination before it becomes abundantly clear.
To solve the problem we would need to continue to do "all of the above" (restricting borders, social distancing, masking, washing hands and disinfecting, eating a better diet, exercising, enough sleep, more and better treatments, mitigative shots, etc.) for a longer period of time, maybe another year, perhaps longer, even if uncomfortable.!
Agree -- can we please fire Faucci now and get someone in there who will take this seriously?
I never said it wasn't known to be a possibility. It wasn't known that it would become frequent enough, or pose enough threat, to reverse the guidelines. This is new information based on new data and I would think pertinent to your OP. It's a reversal in policy from 2 months ago that said vaccinated people no longer needed to wear masks or socially distance.
It's not all about you, or me for that matter, and your regimen has absolutely nothing to do with vaccinated people now being at higher risk for both transmitting and getting sicker due to less effective antibodies. They need to know that risks have increased, especially if they have high risk factors.
Sigh. I know it's not "all about me" but all I can do is control my own actions - I can't do anything to control the actions of others, and frankly, if they are at a greater risk, their actions should probably reflect that but meanwhile, I'm doing what I can do. If a place or governor or whatever says wear a mask, I'll wear one.
I've known from the get go that I could still transmit the virus even if I am vaccinated, which is why I have continued to socially distance, and wear a mask where required and in some cases where I feel it is necessary.
But I am NOT going to wear more than one mask, get the vaccination and boosters, and live the life of a hermit, and I can just hope and pray that our economy isn't impacted as badly as it was in 2020.
Same here Kathryn, but it appears you take a naive shot in the dark when you call these mitigative shots "vaccines", repeating purposeful propaganda.
It appears you also take a naive shot in the dark by stating that it is "common knowledge" that these mitigative shots mitigate the risk of infection and severity.
"Common" "knowledge" is these mitigative shots are "vaccines" and by themselves they are going to solve the problem.
They are not vaccines, and by themselves they are not going to solve the problem. They are mitigative shots of waning effectiveness, they help, they help some people more than others, and in any case it's not enough.
To solve the problem we would need to continue to do "all of the above" (restricting borders, social distancing, masking, washing hands and disinfecting, eating a better diet, exercising, enough sleep, more and better treatments, mitigative shots, etc.) for a longer period of time, maybe another year, perhaps longer, even if uncomfortable.
But, clearly, solving the problem is not good for business, well at least somebody's business, is it.
The US just came out of two 20-year wars in faraway lands, contained, never really got out of hand, good, very good, for business, well at least somebody's business.
I know you understand how this all works.
Anyway, keep doing what you're doing, the best you can.
All the best!
Thanks, but I am calling them vaccines because that's what they are. No vaccine ever developed is 100 percent effective and many need booster shots. Tetanus, for instance.
And no, the global economy has already been devastated and can't take much more of it so we need to find a balance. We've been needing to find a balance.
My social media memories from a year ago were saying the oft quoted "fifteen days to stop the spread" and it was like 20 days later. Lord, what a year.
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