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This could be argued forever based on your perception versus my perception because a lot depends on how much attention has been paid to this subject overall and how much attention has been paid to details. Yes, I'm sure there has been awareness of this for a long time and that's why I didn't say it was something new.
The same can be said about arteriosclerosis. It was discovered in the seventies that it could be stopped, controlled, and even reversed in many cases through dietary and other means. But every time I meet someone who has had bypass surgery, I ask them if they ever heard about it and they say no. There may be plenty of people who do know about it but that doesn't mean everyone knows about it.
Spending billions of dollars trying to find a cure for cancer has been around forever too but that's not going to stop them from spending billions more.
As far as exactly what should be done to help reduce excess fat in our population, I think education would be first on my list. (Due to time constraints, I'll have to continue on that idea later.)
Doctors have been advising overweight people to lose weight forever. You cannot make them do it.
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Originally Posted by Jessie Mitchell
Yeah, who would want that job? There is an army of idiots in this country who want Anthony Fauci to be charged criminally for trying to save their damn lives. Can you imagine any kind of official pronouncement that might start telling them they're also too fat? Remember what happened when Michelle Obama tried to get school kids fresh fruits and vegetables in their school lunches? Another Great Culture War broke out.
I mean, I agree with you. I'm just saying Fat America packs heat and weaponizes their semi-trucks now. We are in weird times.
Mrs. Obama's campaign failed in the implementation. You cannot make kids eat foods they do not like. Then there was the problem of not feeding athletes enough calories. Kids had to buy another meal if they were still hungry.
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Originally Posted by Arya Stark
I bet our cancer incident rates and death rates would plummet.
There are so many reasons that being overweight causes cancer -- I mean there are like 50 and also Carbs cause cancer and Diabetes.
It is the failure of the medical community that they don't treat obesity like covid. I mean they should be writing prescriptions for fat people to have time off from work so they can exercise and can have healthy meals prepare on the dime of the health insurance. It is a medical necessity - and good for all of us.
They should be lobbying the USDC to end processed foods.
But no.
What is a "processed" food? Unless it is raw, it has been "processed".
No, food should not be paid for out of the health care budget, unless you want your insurance premiums to be astronomically higher than they already are. Some health insurance companies do offer gym memberships and some offer premium discounts for things like losing weight and improving control of diabetes.
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Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker
All cancers share the same overall characteristics.
Not really. If they did then the same treatments would work on all cancers.
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Originally Posted by Arya Stark
Good for you.
Something else that is stunning is that losing weight just doesn't help with cancer, but also heart disease and most everything under the sun, including covid.
If the US just put 10% of their health care budget into making sure people lost weight they would save TONS of money and lives.
For those who are like, good luck getting people to lose weight... we are saying the gov't / medical care should like really try instead of half heartedly going.. did you try eating less and moving more?
You could spend 100% of the health care budget and still not be able to get people to lose weight. There is no way to "make sure" they would.
Lot of factors, living close to a chemical plant greatly increases your chance at cancer. Chemicals you are exposed to at your job. No doubt extra pollution living/working in an urban area. Even materials and chemicals used in construction, even tighter construction used to lower heating/cooling costs.
Household economics plays a big role. Quality of food. Hint: farmers traditionally havent gotten more money for high nutrition product, its all been about quantity, for animals price received more about their weight, not the quality of their meat. Quantity, not quality as road to increased profit. Traditionally food surplus except at harvest was rare.
Lower quality foods no doubt a factor. In a much more human crowded world, confinement raised livestock fed grain diet to fatten them quickly, lot more profitable than grass fed livestock that requires much more land and puts on lot less weight. Animals such as cows arent engineered to eat grain or wastes, they are grass eaters and perhaps leaf eaters. Grazing on wild natural pasture/prairie with wide variety grasses and plants.
As to diet. Carbs are tasty and relatively cheap, why processed foods are based on GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED grain and grain derived components. And yes there is no free lunch, more quantity through chemicals, lower nutrition, the old varieties of grain and the way they raised them without chemicals made lot difference in nutrition though farming that way made far less quantity. The increase in quantity from chemical fertilizers, etc was just that, more quantity, lower nutrient density. Can feed more people on less land, but at lower standard. Not that old traditional ag when practiced on badly cared for land was any better. Traditional ag depleted the land too, reason you hear about "fallow years" to give nature a chance to recover a bit. But yea even traditional non-chemical ag was more about mining the soil than caring for it and keeping it productive.
Best diet IMHO, a boatload of fresh produce and small amounts of everything else. Exact opposite of way most people eat whether vegetarian, keto, or whatever. Also the economics discourage it. Produce is not subsidized and most expensive part of diet unless you can raise your own in season. Once bought it has very limited shelf life. Also again its raised for maximum production, grocery store shelf life, and eye appeal, not maximum nutrition. And really cant use the term "fresh", more accurate to call it raw. Cause produce is transported long distances from climates where its available particular times of year and cheap labor, and store in low oxygen environments to reduce spoilage. This to also keep prices up rather than the low price in harvest season when there is surplus and high price when there are slim pickins.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, weight and body fat control has been part of cancer prevention since forever. Obviously, in large part that's up to the patient, not the advising MD. Are you suggesting that the renewed war on cancer needs to include formulated weight control/loss aids?
Yes, it has. since forever. Perhaps the OP lives in another country.
You just refuse to admit that if obesity were linked to cancer, there would be more cancer, not less. This conversation is not about evidence or logic or science. It's about belief, and just like belief in religion or politics, no one ever changes anyone's mind. They just get further entrenched in their own positions.
The reasons I gave you were based on a report from the National Cancer Society. So what you mean is they refuse to admit that you know more than they do.
I,m sure they have a toll free number so you could call them and explain to them how they got it wrong.
Last edited by LongevitySeeker; 03-08-2022 at 09:29 AM..
Carbs don't cause obesity it's the fact they are so addicting and often result in excess calorie consumption. Ultimately weight comes down to calories in calories out. My father for around a year thought that obesity was caused by meat consumption and that you can eat whatever you want that is plant based and never gain weight... and then he overate peanut butter and gained weight. He read the book "How not to die" and got plant based tunnel vision for awhile. He's since adopted a more moderate stance. No you should not eat bag after bag of dates because Dr Gregor says they are healthy plant based sugar. Carbs are still carbs and can be consumed in excess. This idea that sugar is "healthier" in some forms is often a bit exaggerated by people who want to overeat. Hey if you're not overweight and your blood sugar is fine, go for it.
OMG, I'm glad to hear you read Dr Gregor's book "How Not To die", but you made it sound like he said it's okay to eat bag after bag of dates because it's healthy plant based sugar. He never said anything remotely like that. As a matter of fact, there's a section in his book where he suggests limiting fruit to only 3 servings per day.
Agreed. Calories are calories. Different food choices, diets, regimens, etc. are just choices. If you eat too few calories you lose weight, if you eat too many, you gain weight. It doesn't much matter what type of food you eat. You can be healthy on whale blubber or bread, or rice or steak, or cheeseburgers or tuna fish, or dairy or vegetables. We are not carnivores or grazers, like certain animals. We have adapted to all of it, and can live on any of it if we consume the right amount of calories.
Nothing could be more wrong than what you just said because it totally ignores the fact that different types of food contain different nutritional values.
I'm on a cancer forum for patients and caregivers and I continuously see people posting that they or their husband or father was fit and athletic and strong and cancer hit him like a bolt out of the blue. That was my experience as well. I've been in hospitals and many infusion rooms for chemo and hardly ever saw a patient who wasn't reasonably fit. I saw no obese patients in oncology offices.
Overweight and obese together in the U.S. = 69% of the population
But you mostly see reasonably fit people being treated for cancer? Maybe you should start a thread to warn people against being reasonably fit. Is there a board for upside down science?
You mean we are supposed to lose weight for better health?!!
Who'd thunk it?
Do you think anyone who is overweight is not aware that it increases their odds for a whole host of medical problems and diseases?
According to research on overweight and obese people, about half don't think they are overweight or obese. There is a disconnect between perception and reality when it comes to weight. They aren't motivated to lose weight if they don't think it's a problem. Clinicians say there is a lot of magical thinking going on and that they see it daily.
Part of this was attributed to changing norms. The campaign to normalize and promote acceptance of overweight and obesity has worked according to sociologists. It has even been promoted as healthy in some instances.
Research also found that part of the disconnect is from the way foods are marketed. Many think they are eating healthy and don't understand why they are not losing weight --- like fruit gummies and fruit drinks count as a serving of fruit (yeah, it's that bad). They think things like diet frozen dinners and fat-free ice cream are health foods. Some claim they never eat fast food but they are eating a lot of other unhealthy things and may not realize it, and many don't realize that their portion sizes are too big.
Now we are seeing the overweight and obese declining to be weighed at their doctor's office. It's easy to remain in denial if you aren't confronted with reality.
It seems to me that the vast majority only want to lose weight to look better to the opposite sex. Feeling better and reducing health risks don't appear to be the goal or even factor into it at all. If it is, it's rarely mentioned.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, weight and body fat control has been part of cancer prevention since forever. Obviously, in large part that's up to the patient, not the advising MD. Are you suggesting that the renewed war on cancer needs to include formulated weight control/loss aids?
Sorry if I didn't give a complete or satisfactory answer to your question the first time, but I thought your question was a bit confusing. "Since forever"? You don't sound too sure about it when you claim it's been going on since forever.
And in the following sentence you say it's up to the patient but the problem with that is the vast majority of people just don't have the knowledge to deal with it effectively.
Then you say it's not up to the advising MD.. I never said it was.
Then you asked if I'm suggesting formulated weight control/loss aids. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "formulated weight control/loss aids". But if it means what I suspect it might mean, No, I'm not suggesting that.
Last edited by LongevitySeeker; 03-08-2022 at 09:34 AM..
Many women I know these days are underweight or obsessed with staying a certain weight. I put on about 10 lbs during covid, went from 130 to 140. I felt awful. I have taken off a few lbs but it hasn't been easy. it's mainly cravings for unhealthy foods that get to me. It seems like the more affluent the area the more pressure to stay skinny.
I don't think being obese or overweight is healthy but i do think there's a lot of pressure on women in particular to stay thin. Again, i'm not advocating people let themselves go but I see a lot of women my age who are hell bent on staying a size 2. They barely eat and they work out a lot...it just seems like a lot of pressure. I would love to be 115 again but at 43 and where i'm at now it's not going to happen unless I get sick.
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