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Old 08-09-2022, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
79,276 posts, read 73,272,216 times
Reputation: 100902

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker View Post
It seems like you're making an excuse for people not being healthy, and it's the health care system's fault.

If everyone is healthy, why is it that 2/3 of Americans are either overweight or obese? Is that the fault of the healthcare system too?
It doesn't sound like she's making excuses for people not being healthy at all. Why are you saying something like that? It just derails the conversation and makes you appear illogical.

Nor did she at any point remotely say or imply that "everyone is healthy".

You're not making a good case for a plant-based diet if it appears to make you unable to think and converse in a linear and logical manner. Do you take B-12? That could be helpful.
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Old 08-09-2022, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
45,244 posts, read 29,960,892 times
Reputation: 66475
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker View Post
It seems like you're making an excuse for people not being healthy, and it's the health care system's fault.

If everyone is healthy, why is it that 2/3 of Americans are either overweight or obese? Is that the fault of the healthcare system too?
I am making no excuses for anything or anyone. I, can see nuance, and how the many factors contribute to situations. I understand that situations can be profoundly complicated, and latching on to a single concept is rarely accurate, or helpful.

I am against processed foods (though yeah, occasionally I eat some), I am against extreme diets that eliminate large swaths of healthy whole foods, I am pro having oodles of plants in your diet, I am against all the fast food restaurants we have everywhere, I am for the requirement of large chain restaurants being required to make nutritional values available, I am nutrition pro education in schools, I think EBT should give you double value for whole fruits and vegetables (heck even frozen).

I am against the uber large portions that are considered normal, I am pro exercise, I am anti soda, for lowering the amount of sugar and salt that is standard.

Lecturing people to go vegan will accomplish nothing, and I don't even think it is necessary. Teaching people how to cook quick, healthy, economical meals would accomplish more. You have to look at reasons WHY people eat poorly, aside from the obvious taste issues.
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Old 08-09-2022, 10:31 AM
 
762 posts, read 275,652 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
I am making no excuses for anything or anyone. I, can see nuance, and how the many factors contribute to situations. I understand that situations can be profoundly complicated, and latching on to a single concept is rarely accurate, or helpful.

I am against processed foods (though yeah, occasionally I eat some), I am against extreme diets that eliminate large swaths of healthy whole foods, I am pro having oodles of plants in your diet, I am against all the fast food restaurants we have everywhere, I am for the requirement of large chain restaurants being required to make nutritional values available, I am nutrition pro education in schools, I think EBT should give you double value for whole fruits and vegetables (heck even frozen).

I am against the uber large portions that are considered normal, I am pro exercise, I am anti soda, for lowering the amount of sugar and salt that is standard.

Lecturing people to go vegan will accomplish nothing, and I don't even think it is necessary. Teaching people how to cook quick, healthy, economical meals would accomplish more. You have to look at reasons WHY people eat poorly, aside from the obvious taste issues.
I asked someone a question, remember? And you answered for them. And the thrust of your answer was to blame the health care system. Then I replied that it's more likely the fault of the individual because 2/3 of people are overweight.

And that's where you changed the subject to make it personal, about you and me. Read my post on the other thread. The one about plant foods not being a good choice.
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Old 08-09-2022, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
45,244 posts, read 29,960,892 times
Reputation: 66475
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker View Post
I asked someone a question, remember? And you answered for them. And the thrust of your answer was to blame the health care system. Then I replied that it's more likely the fault of the individual because 2/3 of people are overweight.

And that's where you changed the subject to make it personal, about you and me. Read my post on the other thread. The one about plant foods not being a good choice.

I did not blame the healthcare system, I said it is a factor in the situation.

Like I said, it's complicated. Personal responsibility is a factor too. Absolutely.

I can tell you I ballooned up once. It was due to a medication (actually 2) I was taking. I weighed my food, I counted calories to distraction, 1200 calories a day, and 1 hour at the gym 6 days a week (my husband is a certification in fitness), and not a pound dropped for 1 year. Stopped the meds, weight gone. Voila!

There is also a lot of research indicating some of the weight problems might be to gut biome problems. Nothing conclusive yet, but definitely something to watch. Sure, that could VERY well be due to diet, but once it is messed up, just eating healthy doesn't seem to fix it...

But again, having 4 ounces of meat (or whatever) a day is not going to negate an otherwise healthy diet.
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Old 08-09-2022, 06:55 PM
 
160 posts, read 178,961 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
I did not blame the healthcare system, I said it is a factor in the situation.

Like I said, it's complicated. Personal responsibility is a factor too. Absolutely.

I can tell you I ballooned up once. It was due to a medication (actually 2) I was taking. I weighed my food, I counted calories to distraction, 1200 calories a day, and 1 hour at the gym 6 days a week (my husband is a certification in fitness), and not a pound dropped for 1 year. Stopped the meds, weight gone. Voila!

There is also a lot of research indicating some of the weight problems might be to gut biome problems. Nothing conclusive yet, but definitely something to watch. Sure, that could VERY well be due to diet, but once it is messed up, just eating healthy doesn't seem to fix it...

But again, having 4 ounces of meat (or whatever) a day is not going to negate an otherwise healthy diet.
I can relate to this. I am on a medication right now that keeps from losing weight. I only need to lose about 20 pounds, but on my fame that is a lot. Same as you, 1200 - 1500 calories a day, peloton 5 days a week, walking, hiking, etc... Not an ounce. It is sooooooo frustrating. Unfortunately I will have to be on this drug forever.

I still eat healthy and exercise and have someone what wrapped my brain around being bigger - but its a frustrating situation for sure. At least you got to go off your meds.
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Old 08-10-2022, 08:54 AM
 
762 posts, read 275,652 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
I did not blame the healthcare system, I said it is a factor in the situation.

Like I said, it's complicated. Personal responsibility is a factor too. Absolutely.

I can tell you I ballooned up once. It was due to a medication (actually 2) I was taking. I weighed my food, I counted calories to distraction, 1200 calories a day, and 1 hour at the gym 6 days a week (my husband is a certification in fitness), and not a pound dropped for 1 year. Stopped the meds, weight gone. Voila!

There is also a lot of research indicating some of the weight problems might be to gut biome problems. Nothing conclusive yet, but definitely something to watch. Sure, that could VERY well be due to diet, but once it is messed up, just eating healthy doesn't seem to fix it...

But again, having 4 ounces of meat (or whatever) a day is not going to negate an otherwise healthy diet.
After many years of looking at and thinking about these things, it just comes natural to me to form some conclusions by looking at the big picture, like the overall population. Looking at one person at a time is fine if someone comes on this forum asking for advice about losing weight. Then I'd be happy to give my opinion. In many of your previous posts to me, you've told me what you eat but not why you're telling me. So I wondered what the purpose was.

When you tried to lose weight but couldn't, were you taking a cholesterol drug? Anyway, I hope those people who always say, "calories in, calories out" will read your post.

The research on gut microbes or microbiome has been ongoing for many years. I have books on that and I think it's fairly well established that it makes a huge difference. You said, "....that could VERY well be due to diet." Absolutely, diet has a lot to do with it. Also, taking medications, especially antibiotics, can kill the good bacteria in your digestive system. And the good bacteria, assuming you have some, will thrive and multiply on high fiber plant foods. It seems the more strains of bacteria the better so some people take probiotics for that purpose.

Your last comment was about eating 4 ounces of meat per day. Are you pushing meat? Maybe not, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But if I had commented on you consuming 4 ounces of meat per day, from a health perspective, it's almost certain I would be accused of pushing my diet on others. So it seems there are different rules for different people.
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Old 08-10-2022, 10:02 AM
 
Location: The Bubble, Florida
2,121 posts, read 1,071,709 times
Reputation: 6177
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker View Post
It seems like you're making an excuse for people not being healthy, and it's the health care system's fault.

If everyone is healthy, why is it that 2/3 of Americans are either overweight or obese? Is that the fault of the healthcare system too?
Americans, just like every other nationality, get overweight by overeating and not getting enough exercise. That's just - normal, mundane, no-brainer, doesn't-need-a-degree-in-physiology science.
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Old 08-10-2022, 11:02 AM
 
762 posts, read 275,652 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghaati View Post
Americans, just like every other nationality, get overweight by overeating and not getting enough exercise. That's just - normal, mundane, no-brainer, doesn't-need-a-degree-in-physiology science.
That's exactly what the food industry and their representatives say: "People just don't know any better, they eat too much and are lazy."

That's how they wash their hands of any responsibility.

https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes...erage-joe.html

Scroll down to where it asks: Are you thin?

"A 2006 study published in the Neurology journal found that people with a body mass index - a measure of body fat - of 20 or less could recall 56% of words in a vocabulary test, while heavier subjects (with a BMI of 30 or higher) could remember only 44%. When retested 5 years later, obese subjects' cognitive recall dropped to 37.5 percent, whereas their thinner counterparts retained their level of recall."
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Old 08-11-2022, 01:14 PM
 
Location: New Jersey!!!!
16,106 posts, read 11,345,225 times
Reputation: 17750
That waste in your colon was all fiber.

Picked up another 1/8 cow last night. It feels awesome to have a freezer full of MEAT again, human food!
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Old 08-12-2022, 12:47 PM
 
Location: equator
9,923 posts, read 4,936,556 times
Reputation: 23053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker View Post
That's exactly what the food industry and their representatives say: "People just don't know any better, they eat too much and are lazy."

That's how they wash their hands of any responsibility.

https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes...erage-joe.html

Scroll down to where it asks: Are you thin?

"A 2006 study published in the Neurology journal found that people with a body mass index - a measure of body fat - of 20 or less could recall 56% of words in a vocabulary test, while heavier subjects (with a BMI of 30 or higher) could remember only 44%. When retested 5 years later, obese subjects' cognitive recall dropped to 37.5 percent, whereas their thinner counterparts retained their level of recall."
My skinny DH can't remember a thing.
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