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Old 07-26-2022, 09:05 AM
 
762 posts, read 274,402 times
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Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
I don’t believe you need to drastically reduce animal proteins, as long as you are eating organic and/or grass fed. But I guess it would depend on how much you were originally consuming, because I’m also a firm believer in never going over your macro limit on proteins.

If people want to be strictly vegan, well, I don’t consider that to be the best decision for their future health. But it is better than eating processed carbs and sugar, which I don’t eat at all.

So if you have the discipline to eat right, you should also include animal protein as it’s very beneficial to you.
Why do you think "animal protein is very beneficial?"
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Old 07-26-2022, 09:07 AM
 
7,306 posts, read 5,820,539 times
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Let's note that there is a difference between health and philosophy. When vegans start losing the health argument, they always switch to their philosophy.
Vegans are not vegans for health reasons. The philosophy of animal suffering is always front and center. People who engage vegans in the "healthy or not" debate can rarely relate to the idea of depriving themselves for mere moral reasons.
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Old 07-26-2022, 09:22 AM
 
26,669 posts, read 16,082,618 times
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Originally Posted by 1insider View Post
Vegans are not vegans for health reasons. The philosophy of animal suffering is always front and center. People who engage vegans in the "healthy or not" debate can rarely relate to the idea of depriving themselves for mere moral reasons.
The Jain outdo them...without being vegan.
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Old 07-26-2022, 09:49 AM
 
741 posts, read 363,785 times
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Originally Posted by Arcenal813 View Post
Yes, and I agree with you. I get lots of my protein from legumes and such, but I also do use organs etc. to make stocks, which I then use to cook a variety of dishes. The stock is FULL of those nutrients, and no one knows that they are essentially consuming what they'd consider to be disgusting (for whatever reason.)
I wish we had reasonably priced organ meat in my area. They are incredibly expensive and I won't buy it.
I only will be liver and gizzards as they are cheap.
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Old 07-26-2022, 10:38 AM
 
3,898 posts, read 1,690,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker View Post
Why do you think "animal protein is very beneficial?"
Meat protein is very nutrient dense, which is what Dr. Berg’s video is about in the first place.

If you are eating right, avoiding all processed foods and sugar, then grassfed or organic meat and eggs protein will not harm you at all and will be beneficial to you.

If you eat half a dozen donuts and 10 strips of bacon for breakfast, then eat a few pizza slices for lunch, and then eat a large steak for dinner, yes, you will die way before your time. High protein, high carb diets are an absolute killer.

But It wouldn’t surprise me if people who eat processed garbage all day would get benefits from plant protein as opposed to meat protein, mainly because you would likely eat less protein that way.

Dr. Berg also says that any excess protein consumed will be converted to glycogen, which would be similar if you just ate carbs.

I think a person should max out on proteins and fats, but never go over the recommended amount, and then shoot for 75 carbs per day. That’s what I do and I feel amazing. If you do have days where you are really hungry, it’s better to go over your fat total than it is your protein level.

Now if you are a young person and trying to build muscle, that’s a whole other thing. But if you are a middle aged guy trying to live as healthy for as long as possible, excess protein is bad.

There are so many other things too. You must eat fermented foods regularly. You must have a balanced Omega 3- Omega 6 ratio. You must have small eating windows to limit insulin spikes and encourage autophagy. If you are overweight, you need to put yourself in a caloric deficit, so eating nutrient dense foods like animal protein is important.

But to wrap up, if a guy is eating a normal American diet with 300+ carbs, to include desserts, bread, pasta, and then eats normal commercially farmed meat laced with hormones and potentially other toxins, it’s going to go very poorly for him.

A guy who eats strictly vegan and eats no processed carbs, no sugar, will do fine, but he could do better with some organic eggs and true grassfed beef.
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Old 07-26-2022, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
8,825 posts, read 5,361,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1insider View Post
Vegans are not vegans for health reasons. The philosophy of animal suffering is always front and center. People who engage vegans in the "healthy or not" debate can rarely relate to the idea of depriving themselves for mere moral reasons.
This is likely to be the case much of the time, perhaps most of the time, though there are plenty of exceptions.

I know of a couple personally. For instance, one middle aged NYC man has told me that going vegan radically improved his health. It can certainly reduce inflammation for some individuals.
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Old 07-27-2022, 04:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Arktikos View Post
This is likely to be the case much of the time, perhaps most of the time, though there are plenty of exceptions.

I know of a couple personally. For instance, one middle aged NYC man has told me that going vegan radically improved his health. It can certainly reduce inflammation for some individuals.
Agree. I think lots of people's health would improve by going vegan or at least vegetarian. I was responding to the poster accusing vegans of flip-flopping when they "start losing the health argument" and pointing out that health is secondary for most who choose veganism. I don't understand why meat-eaters want to debate vegans on the health aspects of their diets when most vegans care more about the animals than they do their own health. Obviously there are exceptions.
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Old 07-27-2022, 05:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1insider View Post
Agree. I think lots of people's health would improve by going vegan or at least vegetarian. I was responding to the poster accusing vegans of flip-flopping when they "start losing the health argument" and pointing out that health is secondary for most who choose veganism. I don't understand why meat-eaters want to debate vegans on the health aspects of their diets when most vegans care more about the animals than they do their own health. Obviously there are exceptions.
You might have a point if the vast majority of people who go vegan/vegetarian (outside those who are brought up with it for religious/cultural reasons) didn’t go back to eating meat within a relatively short time. I do know people who have benefited, but I also know others who have had way more health issues while vegan or vegetarian. IIRC, my college roommate had so many health issues when she was vegetarian. She still has them now, but she had a lot of skin/allergy issues that seemed to have gotten better once she started eating a full array of foods again.
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Old 07-27-2022, 06:12 AM
 
1,067 posts, read 943,583 times
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The Jain outdo them...without being vegan.
Jains are vegetarians. Their religious code prohibits them from eating meat, fish and eggs.
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Old 07-27-2022, 06:26 AM
 
26,669 posts, read 16,082,618 times
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Originally Posted by 1insider View Post
I don't understand why meat-eaters want to debate vegans on the health aspects of their diets when most vegans care more about the animals than they do their own health. Obviously there are exceptions.
Vegans are the ones, in missionary zeal, who usually start those debates with meat-eaters.
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