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Old 08-11-2022, 08:14 AM
 
4,959 posts, read 4,107,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns View Post
Do they show it (actual science), or do they just say it (talking point)?
Of course they show it.
Quote:
I think it's common knowledge that the flu went away everywhere, and it's common knowledge that there was (and still is!) tremendous variation in mask-wearing based on geography, so I do not think I need to cite anything.
Do you seriously not see the incredible irony of this? Nothing about this pandemic can be even loosely described as "common knowledge" (except, ironically, that masks slow the spread of upper respiratory infections - until someone like you comes along with his "truth"). However, these are all ostensibly verifiable claims, assuming you have the data to back them up. You don't.
Quote:
Do you have anything showing that, say, Vermont or New York had less flu, say, than Ohio or Nebraska?
You're making the inverse claim. The onus of proof is on you, not me.
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Old 08-11-2022, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
4,003 posts, read 4,347,423 times
Reputation: 5256
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlanderfil View Post
Of course they show it.Do you seriously not see the incredible irony of this? Nothing about this pandemic can be even loosely described as "common knowledge" (except, ironically, that masks slow the spread of upper respiratory infections - until someone like you comes along with his "truth"). However, these are all ostensibly verifiable claims, assuming you have the data to back them up. You don't.You're making the inverse claim. The onus of proof is on you, not me.
What the hell kind of statement is this?

The flu disappeared in the 2020-21 flu season, basically everywhere. Common knowledge. If you take issue, show me somewhere on the globe where it didn't (i.e., provide a counterexample).

Mask wearing varied dramatically by geography. Common knowledge. If you travelled among different U.S. states, it was obvious. If you didn't, there were breathless articles and editorials about how people weren't "masking up" in certain places. Again, if you take issue, show me that mask wearing was the same everywhere.
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Old 08-11-2022, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
35,511 posts, read 37,619,390 times
Reputation: 42467
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns View Post
Do they show it (actual science), or do they just say it (talking point)?

I think it's common knowledge that the flu went away everywhere, and it's common knowledge that there was (and still is!) tremendous variation in mask-wearing based on geography, so I do not think I need to cite anything.

Do you have anything showing that, say, Vermont or New York had less flu, say, than Ohio or Nebraska?
Mask wearing is only part of what helped reduce flu. Social isolation is a significant factor, including kids being out of school.

As all mitigation measures were relaxed, flu incidence went up last season. It is not just masking.
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Old 08-11-2022, 08:58 AM
 
4,959 posts, read 4,107,446 times
Reputation: 4181
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns View Post
What the hell kind of statement is this?
A scientifically backed one. We still don't 100% know what caused it, what causes severe cases among what age groups, which people are naturally immune to it, etc. There are certain basic elements of it which are common knowledge, but given how politicized a friggin' virus has become, there's nothing "common" about any of it.
Quote:
Mask wearing varied dramatically by geography. Common knowledge. If you travelled among different U.S. states, it was obvious. If you didn't, there were breathless articles and editorials about how people weren't "masking up" in certain places. Again, if you take issue, show me that mask wearing was the same everywhere.
Of course it wasn't. But you are using anecdotal evidence to support your statement. There were shutdowns. There was masking (even in those places you're describing, there was at least 30-40% masking). (And a trickle-down effect of both even to the places where there was less of both.) There was less travel. There was a record number of flu vaccines distributed in the U.S. that year (almost 200 million doses). There were different (and newer) flu vaccines distributed that year. As I said (if you care to read my initial statement) - masking was one of the reasons flu went away that year. I guess I could call that common knowledge, but I'm not sure you'd be able to handle that particular dose of irony.
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Old 08-11-2022, 08:59 AM
 
4,959 posts, read 4,107,446 times
Reputation: 4181
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Mask wearing is only part of what helped reduce flu. Social isolation is a significant factor, including kids being out of school.

As all mitigation measures were relaxed, flu incidence went up last season. It is not just masking.
Exactly. And that's all I said. Nobody has ever claimed it was the reason. But it certainly was a contributing factor.
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Old 08-11-2022, 09:39 AM
 
522 posts, read 593,370 times
Reputation: 871
I am still required to wear a mask at all of my doctor's office visits and for diagnostic testing inside of hospitals. Face shields are not allowed to be worn instead of masks. I subscribe to UTube channels that record the latest videos of walking tours around Europe, and I have noticed that only a few people are walking around wearing masks or while sitting at street cafe's outside there. I assume there will be an increase in cases this coming Fall again.

Last edited by glenninindy; 08-11-2022 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 08-11-2022, 09:47 AM
 
4,959 posts, read 4,107,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenninindy View Post
Face shields are not allowed to wear instead of masks.
With good reason - they don't work. (They're better than nothing, because they can at least protect from direct projectile spread, but not by much, because airborne droplets can still get under the shield fairly easily.)
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Old 08-11-2022, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
35,511 posts, read 37,619,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
Would these be the junk science studies with no control group or cherry-picked locations?

You don't even need a study to see masks don't work. Dr. Ted Noel demonstrates that aerosols go through and around masks. https://rumble.com/vu00zo-dr-ted-noe...-viruses..html
Masks are only part of the mitigation of covid-9. Social distancing and better hand hygiene play a part, too. Masks are not expected to eliminate transmission of the virus. They do reduce it, some types better than others.

A "natural experiment":

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm

"Among 139 clients exposed to two symptomatic hair stylists with confirmed COVID-19 while both the stylists and the clients wore face masks, no symptomatic secondary cases were reported; among 67 clients tested for SARS-CoV-2, all test results were negative. Adherence to the community’s and company’s face-covering policy likely mitigated spread of SARS-CoV-2."

Quote:
So this finally explains people riding around alone in their car with a mask on.
You can roll your eyes all you want. 3M, who makes masks, recommends touching the mask as little as possible.

https://assets.alliedelec.com/v16231...37027296dd.pdf

"Don’t take your face mask on and off.
Once your mask is on, keep it on. Even if you are just getting back in your car between errands, removing your mask can get it dirty and allow potentially harmful particulates near your nose and mouth when you put it on again."

Quote:
I challenge anyone who thinks masks or lockdowns worked to point to cases, hospitalizations or deaths over time, in any place that used these measures, to find on a chart when these measures started or compare them to similar places that didn't mandate these measures.
The US has never had a lockdown. The existence of a mask mandate does not mean people complied. How many have worn a mask but left the nose uncovered?
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Old 08-11-2022, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
4,003 posts, read 4,347,423 times
Reputation: 5256
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlanderfil View Post
Exactly. And that's all I said. Nobody has ever claimed it was the reason. But it certainly was a contributing factor.
I don't think the signal is that clear. I think there's such a mythology around masks that people are seeing a signal that might not be there actually.

I'll point out that mask wearing is correlated with social distancing and shutdowns (i.e., generally, all three were all prevalent in a given locale, or all three were relatively absent), so even if there were an effect of all of these measures together on flu (and again, I don't think there was, considering locales that were averse to these measures also saw flu go away), how would you know how much of the effect was due to masks, versus the other measures?
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Old 08-11-2022, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
4,003 posts, read 4,347,423 times
Reputation: 5256
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Masks are only part of the mitigation of covid-9. Social distancing and better hand hygiene play a part, too. Masks are not expected to eliminate transmission of the virus. They do reduce it, some types better than others.

A "natural experiment":

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm

"Among 139 clients exposed to two symptomatic hair stylists with confirmed COVID-19 while both the stylists and the clients wore face masks, no symptomatic secondary cases were reported; among 67 clients tested for SARS-CoV-2, all test results were negative. Adherence to the community’s and company’s face-covering policy likely mitigated spread of SARS-CoV-2."



You can roll your eyes all you want. 3M, who makes masks, recommends touching the mask as little as possible.

https://assets.alliedelec.com/v16231...37027296dd.pdf

"Don’t take your face mask on and off.
Once your mask is on, keep it on. Even if you are just getting back in your car between errands, removing your mask can get it dirty and allow potentially harmful particulates near your nose and mouth when you put it on again."



The US has never had a lockdown. The existence of a mask mandate does not mean people complied. How many have worn a mask but left the nose uncovered?
You're pretending not to understand the colloquial use of "lockdown," because you're not equipped to answer that poster's question. Kindly knock it off.
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