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Old 08-10-2023, 08:15 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,286,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaikikiWaves View Post
More semantical rebuttal but the medical profession is mostly here for disease management, not so much health promotion. Going to a doctor won't make you healthy or even promote your health, but if you develop a condition, the Doc can help you manage this with fewer consequences.

But the key to health promotion is what you do everyday - your diet, exercise, sleep, stress, other factors (like drug use). Focusing on these things is the key to being healthy. Use Docs for when your health fails you and there is no good way to get better on your own.
Everyone gets sick. Its unavoidable. Illness caused by bacterial infections requires treatment. Almost everyone will break a bone at some point. Almost everyone will get cut in some kind of accident or incident at some point in their life. Some women will have pregnancies that are dangerous and require substantial medical intervention at some point in their life. Not all cancer is the result of not exercising, smoking, or eating well. These cancers still have to be dealt with. Some people have issues like acid reflux which require substantial treatment like me. Some heart disease simply runs in families and is not really the result of eating too much fat and cholesterol. Some people develop diabetes early in their lives and require constant injections of insulin to stay alive.

I'm afraid that exercising and buying all your food at Whole Foods isn't going to save you despite the efforts of some people to claim "its all they need". Diet and exercise are important, but they only describe about 50% of the problem or solution.
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Old 08-10-2023, 08:33 AM
 
1,780 posts, read 1,203,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
So that's why we should not bother with yearly checkups, as long as we feel ok.

So yeah my friend used to say that. But he died of cancer at 57.

Cancer they could have found earlier, if he had had his recommended colon screening. By the time he found out it was in his lungs and liver as well and he was dead in a few months.
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Old 08-10-2023, 08:34 AM
 
9,848 posts, read 7,712,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Everyone gets sick. Its unavoidable. Illness caused by bacterial infections requires treatment. Almost everyone will break a bone at some point. Almost everyone will get cut in some kind of accident or incident at some point in their life. Some women will have pregnancies that are dangerous and require substantial medical intervention at some point in their life. Not all cancer is the result of not exercising, smoking, or eating well. These cancers still have to be dealt with. Some people have issues like acid reflux which require substantial treatment like me. Some heart disease simply runs in families and is not really the result of eating too much fat and cholesterol. Some people develop diabetes early in their lives and require constant injections of insulin to stay alive.

I'm afraid that exercising and buying all your food at Whole Foods isn't going to save you despite the efforts of some people to claim "its all they need". Diet and exercise are important, but they only describe about 50% of the problem or solution.
Antibiotics used to be prescribed for many illnesses that were not bacterial infections. I don't know if that still happens, hopefully not. The story was that doctors felt pressured by patients to write that prescription even if it wasn't needed.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we don't seek medical care for broken bones and chronic conditions that need medical intervention. But lifestyle improvements may be the answer for many conditions, changing the diet, supplements, different exercises, stress relief, etc. Our family will always try that first and our doctors know that.
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Old 08-10-2023, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,102 posts, read 41,226,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
The story was that doctors felt pressured by patients to write that prescription even if it wasn't needed.
Not "the story". Truth.
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Old 08-10-2023, 10:03 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 1,492,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Everyone gets sick. Its unavoidable. Illness caused by bacterial infections requires treatment. Almost everyone will break a bone at some point. Almost everyone will get cut in some kind of accident or incident at some point in their life. Some women will have pregnancies that are dangerous and require substantial medical intervention at some point in their life. Not all cancer is the result of not exercising, smoking, or eating well. These cancers still have to be dealt with. Some people have issues like acid reflux which require substantial treatment like me. Some heart disease simply runs in families and is not really the result of eating too much fat and cholesterol. Some people develop diabetes early in their lives and require constant injections of insulin to stay alive.

I'm afraid that exercising and buying all your food at Whole Foods isn't going to save you despite the efforts of some people to claim "its all they need". Diet and exercise are important, but they only describe about 50% of the problem or solution.
Bacterial infections generally don’t require antibiotics. Your body is quite equipped to handle them. Antibiotics may shorten duration of the infection. A bacterial infection that penetrates your mucosal barriers and enters the blood is a more urgent matter and you probably should take IV antibiotics to reduce the probability of sepsis.

As for the rest, no matter what you do, eventually we all die from something. But to maximize your life span and quality of life doesn’t entail a doc but good health practices like I mentioned. Then when you do get some severe condition you can turn to a doc to manage it.
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Old 08-10-2023, 10:21 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California
1,147 posts, read 860,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaikikiWaves View Post
Bacterial infections generally don’t require antibiotics. Your body is quite equipped to handle them. Antibiotics may shorten duration of the infection. A bacterial infection that penetrates your mucosal barriers and enters the blood is a more urgent matter and you probably should take IV antibiotics to reduce the probability of sepsis.

As for the rest, no matter what you do, eventually we all die from something. But to maximize your life span and quality of life doesn’t entail a doc but good health practices like I mentioned. Then when you do get some severe condition you can turn to a doc to manage it.
One doesn't know initially which will become invasive or not. There is no predictive test that one can do to show susceptibility to sepsis ahead of time. Once one does have sepsis then there is a high death rate. Waiting to treat until then is not a wise strategy.

Antibiotics work with the body's defensive in combating the replication of organisms. Sometimes the pathology goes beyond the direct damage of infection. There can be indirect damage by are own host immune system that can result in autoimmune conditions. It is wise and optimal in terminating such infections before this occurs rather than being reactive once they do occur. Yes, one generally doesn't need antibiotics for strep throat but prolonged infections may activate an autoimmune disease.
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Old 08-10-2023, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Fiorina "Fury" 161
3,524 posts, read 3,728,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
I had elevated heart rate and tingling in 2021 and got 0 answers from doctors visits. It's since went away, I'm pretty sure it was long Covid symptoms, but I would have never got that answer from the health system in 2021 anyways, they didn't know. Even for cosmetic things like the dermatologist, half the time they don't offer the treatment and it's a hefty bill just to have them tell you what you found online. If at all possible, telehealth seems to be the better experience for things like a potential prescription or whatever.
I, at times, and kind of still do, have this sentiment. I think looking up stuff is okay, but should be looked at as a guide more than as an answer. If I catch myself trying to self-diagnose, I follow that up with "they do it for a living." It's somewhat akin to walking into their place and telling them how to do their job. What if they walked into your job and told you how to do it because they watched a YouTube video?

I get what you're saying, though. There are a lot of things floating about in the health-o-sphere that can almost be seen as myth, and that the genetic lottery plays the biggest part, but I wouldn't presume that as fact. It's just my opinion. So yes, knowing the human anatomy, your own body, and doing your own research is nice to do to help round out medical knowledge, but shouldn't be a replacement for at least a second opinion from a confirmed doctor.
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Old 08-10-2023, 10:32 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,557 posts, read 17,256,908 times
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I kind of feel the same way as the OP.
I have a primary doctor, but I don't go every year. I do get a lipid panel and metabolic panel every year and all those numbers are good. I can regulate my own diet and am good at exercising - doctors don't know much about that stuff, anyway.


I'm 78 and had a quadruple bypass in '21. About the only thing I learned from that was cholesterol levels really didn't have anything to do with blockage; mine never were high. Never smoked, drank almost no alcohol. Walked a lot. No blood pressure issues. Recovery from surgery was fairly easy and steady.
I'm 5'10"/ 185. Male.



My mother was like I am. She went to the doctor when she was injured, that's all. Died at 94.
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Old 08-10-2023, 11:12 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 1,492,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy View Post
One doesn't know initially which will become invasive or not. There is no predictive test that one can do to show susceptibility to sepsis ahead of time. Once one does have sepsis then there is a high death rate. Waiting to treat until then is not a wise strategy.

Antibiotics work with the body's defensive in combating the replication of organisms. Sometimes the pathology goes beyond the direct damage of infection. There can be indirect damage by are own host immune system that can result in autoimmune conditions. It is wise and optimal in terminating such infections before this occurs rather than being reactive once they do occur. Yes, one generally doesn't need antibiotics for strep throat but prolonged infections may activate an autoimmune disease.
Technically anything can progress to be far worse but if it’s rare, a healthy adult need not to concern themselves with it. I think common sense is needed, minor bouts of cellulitis need not to be treated with an antibiotic. I certainly don’t. Strep throat is generally uncomfortable so patient will seek relief but no good evidence exists that oral antibiotics actually shorten the course of the illness. Meta analysis of shorter duration antibiotics worked just as well as longer duration treatments. I personally would not take antibiotics for Strep.

You forget that every drug has some harmful impacts on your body. Oral antibiotics are particularly hard on your GI tract and a lot of people report incidences of IBD after starting a longer course of antibiotics.

YMMV
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Old 08-10-2023, 12:58 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California
1,147 posts, read 860,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaikikiWaves View Post
Technically anything can progress to be far worse but if it’s rare, a healthy adult need not to concern themselves with it. I think common sense is needed, minor bouts of cellulitis need not to be treated with an antibiotic. I certainly don’t. Strep throat is generally uncomfortable so patient will seek relief but no good evidence exists that oral antibiotics actually shorten the course of the illness. Meta analysis of shorter duration antibiotics worked just as well as longer duration treatments. I personally would not take antibiotics for Strep.

You forget that every drug has some harmful impacts on your body. Oral antibiotics are particularly hard on your GI tract and a lot of people report incidences of IBD after starting a longer course of antibiotics.

YMMV
You make an assumption that a person is healthy and thus and adult need not concern themselves with it. By definition a healthy person is one without disease. If a person gets an initial infection then by definition they are not healthy and if they are not healthy then one can not predict their outcome based on your statement.

As far as strep goes the use of antibiotics is not just to stop a threat infection or symptoms pertaining to the throat infection. It is to minimize the antigenic exposure in trying to prevent autoimmune disorders.

"This systematic review found that antibiotic treatment of sore throat with accompanying symptoms suggestive of group A streptococcal (GAS) infection is effective in reducing the attack rate of acute rheumatic fever by 70%. Intramuscular penicillin appears to reduce the attack rate by as much as 80%. There was one fewer case of acute rheumatic fever for every 50–60 patients treated with antibiotics. These findings suggest that antibiotic treatment can be effective for preventing acute rheumatic fever in a population with suspected GAS throat infection."

That's got nothing to do with shortening the course of sore throat illness. I think one study showed a one day shorter course with antibiotics compared to no antibiotics which isn't much.

Another different kind of example is the routine use of antibiotics in UTI in patients without symptoms.

I am all for clinical studies showing the way on when and how to use antibiotics and when not to use antibiotics. Over use is a problem and recent studies with sinusitis are a good example based on outcome studies.

I am willing to change my mind on a case by case basis based on outcome studies.
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