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Sorry, but a quick google will show clinical trials in which it was found that masks work. Please don't disseminate misinformation.
No, what you're thinking of are not clinical trials. The Bangladeshi is a clinical trial that showed some meager vaccine efficacy for surgical masks (10%), but the results were not statistically significant (p was 0.05, needs to be less) and had one flaw where nearby villagers showed up to the masking villages to get free masks but never returned to report if they have COVID (once they're removed, effect goes back to 0).
But once you add all the clinical trials done on masks (78), including 6 done with COVID (including the Bangladeshi study), there is no effect for masks.
It is misinformation to claim there is evidence from clinical trials that masks work.
I don't know why you keep using the phrase "long lasting immunity" as if to imply the immunity generated from a coronavirus infection is not long lasting?
Your memory b cells last just as long as from an infection from a coronavirus and a infection from any other virus, say measles.
Your antibody levels wane the same too. Immunity generated from coronaviruses is just as long lasting as the one generated by the measles virus. It simply will never be infection blocking, due to the incubation rate. Your immunity against more severe outcomes will remain in place though.
And yes, misled/lie. They could have simply spoken the truth to the American public, and the truth is simply to convey.
- The truth about the vaccine is that it could never be infection blocking. Just reduce disease severity. Therefore all vaccinated individuals could expect to get the virus once their initial antibodies (from vaccine) waned sufficiently.
Saying this alone, a simple message everyone could understand, would have resulted in no mandates.
As for masks, I have no idea what went through Fauci's head, but no one has ever demonstrated masks work in preventing the transmission of respiratory viruses. We have a lot of modeling studies, and observational studies but once applied in a clinical trial, null results left and right.
Either way, if masks work at all, they work very little. Either due to human behaviors, us not understanding something about viral transmission, or masks themselves - they just don't seem to work when tested in a clinical trial.
You keep on talking about B cells lasting long. You make the assumption it is the same virus.
"The Concept of Classical Herd Immunity May Not Apply to COVID-19
However, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), the virus that causes COVID-19, is so different from polio and measles that classical herd immunity may not readily apply to it. Important differences include the phenotypic stability of polio and measles viruses, and their ability to elicit long-term protective immunity, compared to SARS-CoV-2. For these and other reasons, controlling COVID-19 by increasing herd immunity may be an elusive goal."
The vaccine parallels natural infection right now which is why new vaccine boosters are being made.
Clinically one can assess if somebody is immune to measles with blood tests and finding the presence of antibodies and one can report out as immune or non-immune. There is no such test with Coronavirus. One can not do the same so your interpretation is not clinically relevant.
We are just going in circles here. There are a lot of well educated people in this world. Every country in this world vaccinated against COVID. They did so in the hopes that there would be more efficient outcomes with vaccines. This is just a different virus compared to measles. It doesn't fit your measles model.
You keep on talking about B cells lasting long. You make the assumption it is the same virus.
Memory B cells are for peptide segments of an antigen, and need not be for the same virus. Most of the epitopes are preserved between variants. Anyways, viral mutations and waning antibodies have NOTHING to do with why these vaccines are not infection blocking. It all comes down to incubation rate of the virus. It would not matter if SARS-CoV-2 never mutated, these vaccines would never be infection blocking.
You can measure antibodies for SARS-CoV-2 and Measles viruses the same way. One will be infection blocking vs the other, not due to antibody titers but due to incubation rate of the various viruses. Measles viruses, fyi, mutate faster than coronaviruses. They just have far longer incubation periods.
Memory B cells are for peptide segments of an antigen, and need not be for the same virus. Most of the epitopes are preserved between variants. Anyways, viral mutations and waning antibodies have NOTHING to do with why these vaccines are not infection blocking. It all comes down to incubation rate of the virus. It would not matter if SARS-CoV-2 never mutated, these vaccines would never be infection blocking.
You can measure antibodies for SARS-CoV-2 and Measles viruses the same way. One will be infection blocking vs the other, not due to antibody titers but due to incubation rate of the various viruses. Measles viruses, fyi, mutate faster than coronaviruses. They just have far longer incubation periods.
Utter domination of midwittery. People like you should be heading the NIH/CDC, not people like Fauci and Wallensky.
Memory B cells are for peptide segments of an antigen, and need not be for the same virus. Most of the epitopes are preserved between variants. Anyways, viral mutations and waning antibodies have NOTHING to do with why these vaccines are not infection blocking. It all comes down to incubation rate of the virus. It would not matter if SARS-CoV-2 never mutated, these vaccines would never be infection blocking.
You can measure antibodies for SARS-CoV-2 and Measles viruses the same way. One will be infection blocking vs the other, not due to antibody titers but due to incubation rate of the various viruses. Measles viruses, fyi, mutate faster than coronaviruses. They just have far longer incubation periods.
Nothing I see there that you say is in clinical use nor match the clinical studies involving efficacy of any particular COVID vaccine and or transmission blocking ability.
Before we even had a vaccine it was found clinically that people were getting reinfected and not only reinfected but have significant clinical disease. Some people died from such reinfections. That has nothing to do with vaccines. The vaccine immunology came later that mimics a natural infection. That is why blood serology testing could not determine immune status in terms of predicting future immunity. This was before vaccines. Your emphasis on vaccines as somehow completely different from natural infections is off. Nothing you have said has provided any clarity to the issue of immunity faltering after time with the same virus, same strain same incubation period. There's no applicability to what you have said. It's not useful nor relevant. The future trends of research have nothing to do with your take on the biology. They are searching for a more uniform constant region of the virus so called "universal vaccine". They are looking into nasal vaccines to control transmission. Those avenues of research might come up empty but your interpretation of the biology is nowhere to be found or seen in research that I am aware of.
Having said that I am not a research type of guy. Most research is dead-end stuff with no applicability. I am a meat and potatoes type of guy. To me its all about clinical practice on how things are being done now. People are seduced with theory and lose their sense of reality. It becomes real to me when it is put into clinical practice.
Utter domination of midwittery. People like you should be heading the NIH/CDC, not people like Fauci and Wallensky.
Everything I said, Fauci knows for sure as he studied immunology. It seems that our public health view lying as acceptable to the American public if it achieves the health outcomes they're looking for. They probably wanted to get as many people vaccinated as possible, so they downplayed that the vaccines could never be infection blocking so mandates could happen. This is also why FDA approval was rushed, and why Marion Gruber and Philip Krause resigned in anger. Mandating a vaccine based on only EUA is legally tenuous.
The masks, I have no idea to this day why oh why. One of the most ridiculous episodes in public health. You might as well go to a shaman and shake some bones and chant a few times.
Nothing I see there that you say is in clinical use nor match the clinical studies involving efficacy of any particular COVID vaccine and or transmission blocking ability.
I don't understand this sentence.
Quote:
Before we even had a vaccine it was found clinically that people were getting reinfected and not only reinfected but have significant clinical disease.
This point has been discussed ad nauseam. There were really no significant cases of reinfections, and certainly deaths from reinfection early on in the pandemic. You can probably dig and find 1 person also dying of leukemia, maybe. Back then, if you had COVID19, and recovered, they shuttled you right to the COVID wards to treat COVID patients because even then we understood you had immunity.
The rest of your post, you don't seem seem to be addressing, reading, or understanding what I wrote. The vaccines never could be infection blocking. Do you understand why incubation rate is important?
You don't seem to understand why. I explained it clearly in my first post, please re-read that.
This point has been discussed ad nauseam. There were really no significant cases of reinfections, and certainly deaths from reinfection early on in the pandemic. You can probably dig and find 1 person also dying of leukemia, maybe. Back then, if you had COVID19, and recovered, they shuttled you right to the COVID wards to treat COVID patients because even then we understood you had immunity.
The rest of your post, you don't seem seem to be addressing, reading, or understanding what I wrote. The vaccines never could be infection blocking. Do you understand why incubation rate is important?
You don't seem to understand why. I explained it clearly in my first post, please re-read that.
Nothing you stated is in clinical use. Vaccines are presently being used contrary to your beliefs. It is pointless to explain to you why that is the case. Normally it should be a wake up call.
I stated many times what I see as my role here is and that is to explain clinical practice. If there is a change in clinical practice then I will explain that also.
I accept the fact that there are a few people who want to change clinical practice and the burden is on them to prove or present their case.
Nothing you stated is in clinical use. Vaccines are presently being used contrary to your beliefs. It is pointless to explain to you why that is the case. Normally it should be a wake up call.
I stated many times what I see as my role here is and that is to explain clinical practice. If there is a change in clinical practice then I will explain that also.
I accept the fact that there are a few people who want to change clinical practice and the burden is on them to prove or present their case.
The use of vaccines is not the issue to prevent severe outcomes. The issue is lying that they can be infection blocking when not only clinical evidence doesn't exist for this, but our theoretical understanding of immunology would imply they won't be infection blocking.
Everything I said, Fauci knows for sure as he studied immunology. It seems that our public health view lying as acceptable to the American public if it achieves the health outcomes they're looking for. They probably wanted to get as many people vaccinated as possible, so they downplayed that the vaccines could never be infection blocking so mandates could happen. This is also why FDA approval was rushed, and why Marion Gruber and Philip Krause resigned in anger. Mandating a vaccine based on only EUA is legally tenuous.
The masks, I have no idea to this day why oh why. One of the most ridiculous episodes in public health. You might as well go to a shaman and shake some bones and chant a few times.
This is actually a tenant of public health I was taught in my MPH coursework. Utterly atrocious argument that the means justify the ends. Is that really the case if you destroy your credibility with the public in the process? These people are short sighted, grossly incompetent charlatans.
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