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The people in Cairo seem to be Arabs. They are not related to the people who built the pyramids. The poorer people on the outskirts look different. The most "Egyptian" looking person I saw in Cairo was the little woman with the huge eyes and reddish brown skin who was mopping the floor at the airport. I think the descendants of the ancient Egyptians have for the most part been displaced in modern Egypt. It would be like looking for American Indians in New York City.
Imu does seem to have one of its meanings in the ancient Egyptian language as "prince". It also occurs in combo as Imu Re or rather MR. This combo generally is used to refer to someone in a leadership position. I believe this is the origin of the term "Maur, Moor" in the Greco-Roman period. Its not a stretch to consider that if one of the titles of the leading clans and tribes the Greco-Romans were dealing with were referred to as Imu-Re or MR, this term over time could have been used to refer even to the Amazigh tribes in general. As noted by Snowden, Thompson and others, Maur, Aethipopian and Aegyptian were often used by Greco-Romans as synonyms for each other.
Also Tjemehu might be the earliest attested variant of the term Amazigh used as self-identification by the "Berber" tribes.
Saharan history is mighty interesting indeed.
Well I don't have a mystical chalkboard handy but I have another theory I would like to expound upon.
Cooley mentions an Butr Zentiya speaking Amazigh tribe by the name of Garib/Gharib/El 'Arib otherwise known Larbes/Alarbes/Alarves.
This tribe also seems to go by the variant name of Maghrawa/Magaraba. They were known by this name even during the pre-Islamic period, by Pliny and Ptolemy.
I believe they were responsible for the name of Maghrib for North Africa west of the Nile.
Ask your fellow loons in that other forum, they're constantly equating socialism with Nazism. It is quite revealing you mention socialist Nazi part, but nothing about the looney tunes comments on marxist, subversive leftists. Looks like another beckian slithers out from under their rock.
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Originally Posted by claycassden
LOL that goes against everything about Nazism.
You're probably right. I have a feeling you're far more acquainted in that area than I.
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Originally Posted by claycassden
Which is facism. You know... like democracy.
So you're equating fascism with democracy.
You just proved my point, there is nothing going on upstairs with the lunatic fringe nuts.
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Originally Posted by claycassden
Alexander Hamilton was 1/4 black and 1/2 Jewish.
His father's name was Levine til he changed it to Hamilton and married a "mulatto" women in the West Indies and birthed Hamilton.
Aaron Burr used to rag on him constantly about it too.
What the hell does this have to do Cleopatra or the ancient Egyptians?!!!!
Can't you guys pretend to have any brain cells.
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Since the last 3 posters all seem to take orders from the same hive mind, I'd like to point out where they're coming from.
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Originally Posted by EdwardA
Folks hear Hitler and go in reflexive outrage mode. Goes to show how effective Hollywood has been in making Hitler some modern day boogeyman.
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Originally Posted by EdwardA
Again I don't get why people think just because someone kills because of deeply held convictions that they are insane. Do you mean to tell me all the Islamic terrorists are insane?
Also it is not like this guy killed indiscriminately he targeted an indoctrination camp run by his enemies. Seems perfectly rational in light of his documented views.
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Originally Posted by EdwardA
Except his grievances are real and legitimate and the Left would be wise to pay heed. McVeigh was just going off nonsense.
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Originally Posted by EdwardA
Yup there was no realistic avenue for him or other like him to affect the change they seek politically, especially in Europe where rightwing stirrings elicit reflexive cries of Nazism.
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Originally Posted by EdwardA
The Left has gone too far pushing multiculturism and other nonsense.There was bound to be a backlash unfortunately in this case the backlash manifested itself in unspeakable horror.
These nuts are at least sympathizers if not actual (closet) supporters of the nutcase that murdered nearly a 100 people.
They have no interest in history or anything else except creating some insane theocracy and plunging the world into another Dark Age. They are just as despicable as the other religious nuts they believe they are fighting against. I guess they seem them as competition as who gets to send the world into fire and brimstone 1st. That is what they are and what they're about.
Well I don't have a mystical chalkboard handy but I have another theory I would like to expound upon.
Cooley mentions an Butr Zentiya speaking Amazigh tribe by the name of Garib/Gharib/El 'Arib otherwise known Larbes/Alarbes/Alarves.
This tribe also seems to go by the variant name of Maghrawa/Magaraba. They were known by this name even during the pre-Islamic period, by Pliny and Ptolemy.
I believe they were responsible for the name of Maghrib for North Africa west of the Nile.
The Magariba appeared to have been one of the most paramount groups that served the early Islamic empire after Arab tribes were no longer desired as military troops (see p. 106-107 especially) during the 8th and 9th centuries. Its probably due to their extensive use as soldiers in Egypt and parts further east, that the territory west of the Nile eventually became known as the Maghrib.
Interestingly enough, I believe the Magariba can be traced to the Meshwesh that appeared during the New Kingdom and eventually (along with the Libu) came to rule Egypt for much of the interval between the fall of the 20th dynasty and the rule of the Ptolemies.
The root of Meshwesh seems related to the Egyptian word for army, soldiers, warriors (see Manassa Merneptah text in Libya thread). Just as many scholars have traced the Libu to the later Laguantan/Levuta/Lawata, the Magaribah/Mojabra/Garib of the Zenetiya Butrs may be the descendants of the Meshwesh.
There are even more links between the Saharan and the Nile peoples. Oric Bates pointed out that the ancient scholar Ptolemy mentioned the Garamantes of the Fezzan, located in the north central Saharan section of modern Libya, as extending to Lake Nuba (Eastern Libyans, p.49). Procopious also stated that the Nubades were originally from the western desert oases of Egypt before they encouraged by the Romans to settle in the area of modern Nubia. The Nubades before this were considered Libyans.
The name could stem from Egyptian Neb which means "lord or noble". Norris reveals in his Saharan Myth text (see section 13, Libya thread), that variants of neb: Anbat, Enneb, etc were also used to signify nobility among the veiled Zenaga Amazigh of the western Sahara.
The Magariba appeared to have been one of the most paramount groups that served the early Islamic empire after Arab tribes were no longer desired as military troops (see p. 106-107 especially) during the 8th and 9th centuries. Its probably due to their extensive use as soldiers in Egypt and parts further east, that the territory west of the Nile eventually became known as the Maghrib.
Interestingly enough, I believe the Magariba can be traced to the Meshwesh that appeared during the New Kingdom and eventually (along with the Libu) came to rule Egypt for much of the interval between the fall of the 20th dynasty and the rule of the Ptolemies.
The root of Meshwesh seems related to the Egyptian word for army, soldiers, warriors (see Manassa Merneptah text in Libya thread).
Continuing on the Meshwesh/Magaribah link, H.T. Norris (see Libya thread Islamic Sahara section) explains that in Arabic: muharibun or arab means "warriors"; harb means "war"; and haribaya means "warfare". These variant terms dealing with war and warriors were particularly used in the western Sahara.
As I have often said, given the increasing amount of finds being made in the Sahara desert along with archaeological and linguistic evidence pointing towards northeast Africa as the being the original homeland of the Afro-Asiatic (Berber, Cushic, Egyptian, and Semitic) speaking peoples, it is ridiculous for mainstream American academia to still insist on the Maghreb, the Sahara desert proper, Egypt and Nubia along with the modern Sudan as being completely separated, isolated and distinct from each other.
As I have often said, given the increasing amount of finds being made in the Sahara desert along with archaeological and linguistic evidence pointing towards northeast Africa as the being the original homeland of the Afro-Asiatic (Berber, Cushic, Egyptian, and Semitic) speaking peoples, it is ridiculous for mainstream American academia to still insist on the Maghreb, the Sahara desert proper, Egypt and Nubia along with the modern Sudan as being completely separated, isolated and distinct from each other.
Kovert, you seem in the know about ancient northeast africa as i assume that you're from egypt or libya?
Anyway a tad off subject here however i'd like to know who were those ancient ''stone age'' peoples that were living in northeast africa as i'm somewhat in the camp that believes that the ancient below ground Osirian Temple and even the Sphinx weren't built by the ''Old Kingdom'' pharaohs but instead built around 10,500 b.c. by an super intelligent peoples possibly wiped out by the ''Younger Dryas'' ice age or cataclysmic event that possibly had brought it on.
Last edited by Six Foot Three; 07-28-2011 at 10:32 AM..
Kovert, you seem in the know about ancient northeast africa as i assume that you're from egypt or libya?
6, for centuries, many people from all over the world, from the classical Greco-Romans to Napoleon and beyond have been awed by the antiquity and majesty of the Nile civilizations. I am just one of a very large number.
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Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3
Anyway a tad off subject here however i'd like to know who were those ancient ''stone age'' peoples that were living in northeast africa
You do realize that is a very broad question both in scope of time (going back to the earliest homo sapiens like the Aterians of over a 100,000 years ago) and of space (northeast Africa consists of the Horn nations as well as modern Egypt and the Sudan).
I would recommend checking out sections 1-5 & 7 of my recommendations in the Libya thread.
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Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3
as i'm somewhat in the camp that believes that the ancient below ground Osirian Temple and even the Sphinx weren't built by the ''Old Kingdom'' pharaohs but instead built around 10,500 b.c. by an super intelligent peoples possibly wiped out by the ''Younger Dryas'' ice age or cataclysmic event that possibly had brought it on.
You might be interested in the texts written by Robert Bauval and Thomas G. Brophy. They are generally regarded as being more in line with the New Agers rather than Egyptology. I think its a good thing to have an open mind and to always question and challenge mainstream academia, but the New Agers can also be into questionable theories (this thread's knucklehead being a perfect example) like space aliens, Atlantis, blonde Russians and whatnot.
Fred Wendorf has a rebuttal to some of Brophy's claims. I don't follow Brophy or Bauval but they may be more along the lines of what you're looking for.
You might be interested in the texts written by Robert Bauval and Thomas G. Brophy. They are generally regarded as being more in line with the New Agers rather than Egyptology. I think its a good thing to have an open mind and to always question and challenge mainstream academia, but the New Agers can also be into questionable theories (this thread's knucklehead being a perfect example) like space aliens, Atlantis, blonde Russians and whatnot.
Fred Wendorf has a rebuttal to some of Brophy's claims. I don't follow Brophy or Bauval but they may be more along the lines of what you're looking for.
Thanks for the info and yeap i've known about Nabta Playa and i wanted to add that egyptian researcher/scholar John Anthony West has some really fascinating findings on ancient egypt as well.
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