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Old 06-28-2010, 02:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newhandle View Post
Many of the Sephardic Jews and their decendents are now crypto-Jews. I was not even aware of how large this group is until I moved west. They are rediscovering their identity, some joining Reform, Conservative and Orthodox congregations, others now going back to their Sephardic roots. One estimate I read is that 10% of Brazil's poplulation has crypto-Jewish ancestory.
I dont think there were many crypto Jews in Spain as dring the Inquistion as Spain largely got rid of them by killing them. Brazil for for most of its History an territory of Portugal. The Inquisition agianst crypto Jews in Brazil also resulted them to be killed off or they fled elsewhere.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:14 AM
 
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Of course not, the Inquisition only removed the visible members of conversed Jews from some cities. Most Crypto-Jews remained.

The Great Inquisitor himself, Torquemada, was Sephardic, and the King that decreed the expulsion of Jews from Spain had a Sephardic grandfather.

All the great Catholic mystics of that era in Spain were Sephardic, Santa Teresa, Fray Luis de Leon, etc.

Most Spanish nobility had some Sephardic origins.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by other99 View Post
I dont think there were many crypto Jews in Spain as dring the Inquistion as Spain largely got rid of them by killing them. Brazil for for most of its History an territory of Portugal. The Inquisition agianst crypto Jews in Brazil also resulted them to be killed off or they fled elsewhere.
Don't forget that King Phillip II of Spain was also King Phillip I of Portugal. The two were united for 60 years. Crypto Jewish communities still exist throughout the southwestern US, Mexico, Chile, Puerto Rico and Brazil. The Jewish community in Recife Brazil became established when the Dutch took over the city for a period of time from Portgual. They intermarry keeping their traditions alive. This is one aspect of Jewish history which has been ignored by Jewish historians who for some reason are very prejudice against them, even using the derogatory term Marrano. Until I moved west, I had no idea of the size of this group of Jews. It even is a regional issue in terms of different denomiations treat them differently. The Orthodox require full conversion, the Conservative do and don't and the Reform don't. (Even in one of the definitive histories of Jews in Colorado, "Pioneers, Peddlers and Tsadikim," the author specifically states she will not discuss crypto-Jewish history in Colorado; thus even this history is only about Jews from northern Europe as if Jews from anywhere else did not exist.)

Last edited by newhandle; 06-28-2010 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:20 AM
 
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Jews call "converse Jews" (marranos, xuetes, etc) the Dead Branch.
Crypto-Jew is a term used by the Inquisition.
The main confidents of the Inquisition were Jews that hated "converse Jews".
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:25 PM
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In Israel in the past the birthrate of the Sephardic Jewish Israelis has been higher than the Ashkenazi Jewish Israelis.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Paquito Chocolatero View Post
Jews call "converse Jews" (marranos, xuetes, etc) the Dead Branch.
Crypto-Jew is a term used by the Inquisition.
The main confidents of the Inquisition were Jews that hated "converse Jews".
Crypto-Jew is the term they currently use.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:44 PM
 
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Yes, but it has now sense nowdays.
Jews are not persecuted.
In Spain you've got towns and even cities that are all descendant of Jews, nobody would care if they return to their old faith.
Jews ceased to be persecuted 200 years ago.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by newhandle View Post
The two were united for 60 years. Crypto Jewish communities still exist throughout the southwestern US, Mexico, Chile, Puerto Rico and Brazil.
Wow I had no idea this kind of thing was going on? Why do they secretly practice Judaism now when its been so long since Jews were persecuted in many of these places?

Quote:
(Even in one of the definitive histories of Jews in Colorado, "Pioneers, Peddlers and Tsadikim," the author specifically states she will not discuss crypto-Jewish history in Colorado; thus even this history is only about Jews from northern Europe as if Jews from anywhere else did not exist.)
Well it does seem like this would be treacherous ground for a historian to trod since so much would be based on rumor and family tradition without any more definite proof.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Paquito Chocolatero View Post
Yes, but it has now sense nowdays.
Jews are not persecuted.
In Spain you've got towns and even cities that are all descendant of Jews, nobody would care if they return to their old faith.
Jews ceased to be persecuted 200 years ago.
Well of course Spanish people would have Jewish ansestory way back. They also have Moorish blood in them as well. If they also returned to their own faith of their ansestors it be Islam as well. But the Spanish rulers especially during Queen Isabela and her husband and their sucessors right up to the 19th century, made moves to eradicate Jewish and Islamic and other non Catholic influence on society. Spanish people also have traces of Sub Sarahan DNA in them as well. Spanish people are an mixed race of people just like the American people today.

Last edited by other99; 06-28-2010 at 09:02 PM.. Reason: edit
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:50 AM
 
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No, Spain expelled all "moriscos" in the year 1608. Moriscos were Catholics of Muslim origin. Absolutely all. The largest expulsion in human history.

The expulsion of Jews of 1492 only contemplated Jews, not converse jews. Most converse stayed, though they were harassed by the Inquisition during centuries.

The presence of Sub Saharan or Berberisc DNA in Spain is barely testimonial, much less that in Italy or zones of France.

There were also a small pocket of blacks in Spain, around Cadiz and Seville, there were also expelled by the Inquisition some 300 years ago.

The area with less presence such DNA is Andalusia, the ancient Al Andalus. Every trace of Moorish population was removed and expelled and the area was settled by northern Spanish.

No, the Spanish population is not a mixed race and doesn't bear any resemblance with the American people, 90 percent or more of all Spanish have been living in Spain during the last 3.000 years.
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