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First of all, I have no conspiracy theory about Flight 93. There just happens to be one, that's all.
I'm the LAST person to simply accept ANY government's word for things without my own personal examination of all the evidence available.
That being said....the ONLY conspiracy theories about Flight #93 (which by the way didn't crash in all that remote and unpopulated of an area as I happen to live fairly close to there and know better) are all promulgated upon half-truths and speculations. The FACTS add up perfectly with all the available data.
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And third, what you label as off-topic irrelevance is a credibility test of your advocacy partners. In American jurisprudence, the reliability of witnesses is admissible evidence.
Ummmm...in jurisprudence, all your accusations of lies would be inadmissible as evidence as they don't pertain to the case at hand.
Ummmm...in jurisprudence, all your accusations of lies would be inadmissible as evidence as they don't pertain to the case at hand.
A judge must be convinced that evidence comes from a reliable source. The burden of proof of the reliability of the witness is on the party proffering the evidence. Which is why an "expert witness" is always reqiured, first off, to validate his credentials as a knowledgeable and honorable person:
"For evidence to be reliable enough to be admitted, the party proffering the evidence must be able to show that the source of the evidence makes it so. If the evidence is in the form of witness testimony,the party introducing the evidence must lay the groundwork for the credibility of the witness, and his knowledge of the things to which he attests. Hearsay is generally barred for its lack of reliability. If the evidence is documentary, the party proffering the evidence must be able to show that it is authentic, and must be able to demonstrate the chain of custody from the original author to the present holder. The trial judge performs a "gatekeeping" role in excluding unreliable testimony".
As far as Colin Powell is concerned and all these supposed lies.....
Colin Powell clearly stated that the vial he had was a prop. He wasn't going to bring real anthrax into a Congressional Hearing. He was using it to show how easy it would be to smuggle something that small into the USA and how dangerous such as act would be.
The Iraq Survey Group actually did find evidence that the head of it called "more frightening" than actually finding the WMD (which they did find some). I quote the official findings:
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Saddam never abandoned his intentions to resume a CW effort when sanctions were lifted and conditions were judged favorable:
Saddam and many Iraqis regarded CW as a proven weapon against an enemy’s superior numerical strength, a weapon that had saved the nation at least once already—during the Iran-Iraq war—and contributed to deterring the Coalition in 1991 from advancing to Baghdad.
Furthermore, Joe Wilson lied. It was proven that Iraq did indeed attempt to purchase yellow cake.
Of course little discussed is a couple important things exposed by the Wiki Leaks controversy....
Several Arab nations we now know lied to our intelligence agencies about proof that Saddam had an ongoing WMD program and they were all but begging us to oust him.
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And then go on to the lie that Al Qaeda had the requisite standing army of several million trained and armed soldiers and the logistical support and tactical skill to militarily occupy the USA and force all our women to wear veils and our children to learn to speak Arabic in madrassas, and repeal our constitution and end our way of life forever, and bow down and pray to a god who must be false because he is not called by an English name. And that the only thing standing between us and that dreary outcome was the waste of lives and money and good will vandalizing random countries.
Wow...where on earth did you dream that up? I'd love to see an actual quote from someone in the Bush Administration that ever made those claims.
You call it a waste of lives and money to oust the Taliban and attack Al Qaeda in Afghanistan? Even the present President has called Afghanistan the "good war".
Please remember that the Taliban was given the ultimatum to turn over Bin Laden or face war. It was THEIR choice not to. Not even the UN is against that war.
But I guess you'd prefer we just "absorb" the 911 attacks and do nothing in response.
For evidence to be reliable enough to be admitted, the party proffering the evidence must be able to show that the source of the evidence makes it so. If the evidence is in the form of witness testimony, the party introducing the evidence must lay the groundwork for the credibility of the witness, and his knowledge of the things to which he attests.
The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program — a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.
The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake" — the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment — was a significant step toward closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy. It also brought relief to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions.
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The yellowcake was the last major stockpile from Saddam's nuclear efforts, but years of final cleanup is ahead for Tuwaitha and other smaller sites.
Naaa.......no stockpiles of WMD were ever found in Iraq...Bush lied...right?
Only 500 tons of yellowcake that were feared might fall into the hands of Iran or Insurgents/Terrorists.
And revelations from WikiLeaks:
Wired magazine's contributing editor Noah Shachtman -- a nonresident fellow at the liberal Brookings Institution -- researched the 400,000 WikiLeaked documents released in October. Here's what he found:
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"By late 2003, even the Bush White House's staunchest defenders were starting to give up on the idea that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. But WikiLeaks' newly-released Iraq war documents reveal that for years afterward, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins and uncover weapons of mass destruction (emphasis added). ... Chemical weapons, especially, did not vanish from the Iraqi battlefield. Remnants of Saddam's toxic arsenal, largely destroyed after the Gulf War, remained. Jihadists, insurgents and foreign (possibly Iranian) agitators turned to these stockpiles during the Iraq conflict -- and may have brewed up their own deadly agents."
Naaa.......no stockpiles of WMD were ever found in Iraq...Bush lied...right?
Only 500 tons of yellowcake that were feared might fall into the hands of Iran or Insurgents/Terrorists.
Oh, puleeze is this thread turing into an homage to Judith Miller's ridiculous reporting? The 500 tons of yellow cake stored at the Tuwaitha facility had been there and were KNOWN to have been there since the IAEA had placed it under lock and key since April of 1991! The only fear that it might wind up in the hands of terrorist is when the U.S. Marines "discovered" the facility, broke the seals and left the facility unguarded only to have radioactive canisters looted by local Iraqis who thought they would make nifty house hold items only to find that they had exposed themselves and their neighbors to fatal doses of radioactivity.
Actually, your link only says they knew about it. I'm sure we did know about it! It doesn't say...in fact, it says there should NOT have been 500 tons there when we invaded Iraq.
It mentions nothing of your other claims.
And I don't think Judith Miller EVER wrote for MSNBC, the AP, WikiLeaks, or Wired Magazine.
It doesn't say...in fact, it says there should NOT have been 500 tons there when we invaded Iraq.
Please feel free to quote that section.
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It mentions nothing of your other claims.
It wasn't intended to.
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And I don't think Judith Miller EVER wrote for MSNBC, the AP, WikiLeaks, or Wired Magazine.
Quite true, but I suggest that you go back and re-read that line, for a little deeper meaning.
Anyway...
The fact that the weapons inspections went on for years is only news to those who were asleep during the Bush administration, as is the fact that outdated, unusable, and degraded weapons were found throughout the war and most shockingly that there were Iraqis living in Iraq, who had worked on Iraqis chemical weapons program! Now there is a shocker!
According to it, the yellowcake there at that time was MUCH smaller and was destroyed.
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It wasn't intended to.
Oh? Forgive me then for thinking you were backing-up what you said with a source. So I can just discard the other statements.
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Quite true, but I suggest that you go back and re-read that line, for a little deeper meaning.
So it was just a superfluous statement that didn't really pertain to the subject at hand.
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The fact that the weapons inspections went on for years is only news to those who were asleep during the Bush administration, as is the fact that outdated, unusable, and degraded weapons were found throughout the war and most shockingly that there were Iraqis living in Iraq, who had worked on Iraqis chemical weapons program! Now there is a shocker!
Ummmm...you missed the point. Things I sourced and spoke about are NEW news items which pertain to the supposed "lies" referenced by another poster. WikiLeaks has vindicated the Bush Administration of those charges.
As far as Colin Powell is concerned and all these supposed lies.....
Colin Powell clearly stated that the vial he had was a prop. He wasn't going to bring real anthrax into a Congressional Hearing. He was using it to show how easy it would be to smuggle something that small into the USA and how dangerous such as act would be.
The Iraq Survey Group actually did find evidence that the head of it called "more frightening" than actually finding the WMD (which they did find some). I quote the official findings:
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What about Powell's pencil drawings of trucks and photos of standard roofs?
The Iraq Survey Group "sent by the multinational force in Iraq after the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. It consisted of a 1,400-member international team organized by the Pentagon and Central Intelligence Agency." US government had no influence over it whatsoever, right?
I give up.
Last edited by jtur88; 01-04-2011 at 04:47 PM..
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