What was the most savage civlization in history? (Germany, years, attack)
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Stop the personal bickering. Granted the thread was flawed when it was started, but it has generated a lot of interest, so I'd hate to have to close it.
Stop the personal bickering. Granted the thread was flawed when it was started, but it has generated a lot of interest, so I'd hate to have to close it.
Don't close it. I'm used to this " cachibatches". He/she personally attacked me on several occasions on the debate over the years of Enlightenment Europe. But who cares, life continues.
So let's stick to the topic Cannibalismin the 21st century BBC News - 'Cannibal' trial: German policeman in court over killing
Conclusion: I chose Western Civilization because like it or not, this is the civilization which states have attacked mostly all other civilizations all other the world on all continents. This is just a fact.
Even the Mongols didn't get that far.
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You know nor did the Chinese yet they contributed much to humanity both in savagery and in the arts. But the interesting thing is there is arguably a fundamental difference between a Western and Eastern civilizations and is that the East is psychologically more insular and inward looking in its orientation as it engages in the world.
This is shown by Japan and China who historically kind of were off by themselves and not expanding and going out into the world. They were happy simply to 'stay at home and do their dirty work there. So can we say that they are less savage than the West? I don't think so. China in the 20th is an example. Its prodigious assault on personal and political freedoms is no different than countries in the West who practice that orientation.
^
You know nor did the Chinese yet they contributed much to humanity both in savagery and in the arts. But the interesting thing is there is arguably a fundamental difference between a Western and Eastern civilizations and is that the East is psychologically more insular and inward looking in its orientation as it engages in the world.
This is shown by Japan and China who historically kind of were off by themselves and not expanding and going out into the world. They were happy simply to 'stay at home and do their dirty work there. So can we say that they are less savage than the West? I don't think so. China in the 20th is an example. Its prodigious assault on personal and political freedoms is no different than countries in the West who practice that orientation.
Actually, China had contributed to humanity in terms savagery and arts and both combined.
About 500 years BC to 200 years BC, there were 7 nations in China region. The period is referred as "Waring States period and Spring and Autumn period". Sun Tzu's book Art of War was born during that time. It is art and it served for savagery purposes.
^
Yes, it was like a well-written manual for fighting war. The West had something like it I'd say with the Roman military man, Vegetius, who wrote a treatise called 'De Re Militari in which he put together his thoughts on military principles and methods of fighting. I'd think he and Sun Tzu would have much to talk about if they met in the meeting of say 'civilizations!'.
In the last 100 years: Nazi Germany
In the last 1000 years: Mongol Empire
I agree. "Savage" implies deviation from the norm, and what is considered acceptable. Many examples of savagry have been defined, but if its a part of the overall society yours is part of, then its arguable that its a value which everyone shares and the norm, and while terrible by some other time and places view, how can we accuse the ones who do the damage of being extreem since it implies that there is a univeral standard. We should never accuse a time and people without considering that our own society which we participate in will likely be called for things we find 'normal' but we don't know their world.'
There are plenty examples of genocide throughout history, but when the overall society practices it, as it was in the early time of civilizations, are they to be held to our standard. The Biblical tales describe neighbor not only defeating but eliminating their neighbors, since if they're dead, then they can't come after you. But when you look at the Mongols, they exceeded everyone. They killed just to kill and razed even the towns and settlements. They were feared by everyone, and didn't even last long after they won.
And just because other past times practiced genocide as a normal thing, the attempt to commit it against a handfull of religious or ethnic groups, and the mechanized mission by which it was accomplished, sets them apart from the world they lived in.
Savage is what is not acceptable today being practiced, not when it was done as a matter of course. Yes, there have been many terribly violent and dark times, but maybe each finds its own version to practice and accept.
Stop the personal bickering. Granted the thread was flawed when it was started, but it has generated a lot of interest, so I'd hate to have to close it.
Good Day sir.
I hope I am not the one who is considered bickering, because I am one of the few who has actually offered some very specific evidence for what I am saying. In college I was taught that this is how history is actually done.
If you consider me a bickerer, I ask only that you contact me and let me know and I will back off. I really enjoy this forum, but I have noticed that the rules are often unevenly applied. This, of course, is not necessarily anyone's fault...different moderators are going to have different tolerance levels. But if necessary, please let me know where you believe I am going wrong in presenting evidence and refuting arguments.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePage
Don't close it. I'm used to this " cachibatches".
He/she personally attacked me on several occasions on the debate over the years of Enlightenment Europe.
Page...successfully refuting an argument is not a personal attack. You believe that the Egyptians were black and that the Greeks stole their knowledge from Egypt, both of which are demonstrably wrong, and you started threads about them. And so I demonstrated that both propositions are incorrect. I am very proud of those results as I have helped to educate anyone who might be following along with FACTS and even scientific studies. I urge anyone interested to find those thread.
Anyone who wants to read up, PM me and I will help out.
Those were good debates, you were just wrong.
You see, history, to me, is not a tool of politics or self esteem. It must be honored for what it is...or I should say, how close we can get to understanding it, because our understanding is not exact.
Again, this is not government sanctioned cannibalism. This is the act of a nut. This is not the same as the King of Mali, one of West Africa's leading civilizations, giving cannibals a slave girl to butcher and eat. This is not Andrea Merkel or Barrack Obama helping to facilitate cannibalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePage
Conclusion: I chose Western Civilization because like it or not, this is the civilization which states have attacked mostly all other civilizations all other the world on all continents. This is just a fact.
Even the Mongols didn't get that far.
You have already altered your position to say that they are at least "comparable." You cannot now alter it back.
Besides, as we have covered, African societies have not attacked outside of Africa because they lacked the means to do so.
And again, anyone who is interested in sources for African cannibalism, African mass human sacrifice, the castrations, the live burials, the slave armies, etc. just contact me. This is all historical.
By the by, I still admire Mali, Dahomey and the Ashanti just as I do the Aztecs and Romans. Cruelty does not negate the accomplishments of a civilization.
Last edited by cachibatches; 02-24-2015 at 01:53 PM..
The Mongol empire was built on barbaric "technologies", and a conquest culture. Mongols had the best composite cow bone bows and the best bred horses in the world at the time. With those, along with the will to rob the resource they appreciated the most -- "women", they built a largest empire across Asian and Eastern European continent. However, like any technology-based barbaric empires, it had its rise and fall. Ultimately, the Chinese civilization had overthrown the Mongol empire.
Mao Zedong's communist regime, which slaughtered millions of there own people. Nazi Germany, and the Mongols. The KGB was pretty tough too
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