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Old 08-15-2011, 11:00 AM
14,780 posts, read 43,759,057 times
Reputation: 14622


Originally Posted by sarahnyc View Post
If the Germans had won the war, more than likely our history books would mention the Soviet invasion of the Reich.

How will we ever know which side caused the conflict when history is written by the victors? If you read Hitler's speeches to the Reichstag he talks about how it was the Russians who were going to strike at the Reich. I think that's one of the reason the Wehrmacht could get many foreign volunteers to fight the Russians.
The reason they could get so many volunteers is that the Soviets weren't exactly the nicest overlords in a lot of the territories they held following the initial partition of Poland with Germany in 1939. The Germans were initially seen as liberators until Germany's intentions in the occupied territories beceame clear, then they lost any goodwill they had.

As for the beginnings of the war, like I said in another thread, you really need to go back to school and study up on that. A war between the Nazis and Soviets was seen by both sides as inevitable (they were both claiming the same sphere of influence), but the war itself was ultimately started unilaterally by the Nazi's. There are a few people out there who purport the "theory" that the Soviets were planning an initial strike against the Nazi's, but there is no evidence that anything of the sort was going to happen in 1941 when the Nazi's declared war and launched Barbarossa.
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:56 AM
47 posts, read 48,991 times
Reputation: 35
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
When I saw the thread title, I immediately thought of THAT Pavlov, not even remembering about the existence of another one.
Now I am reading that they were all rehabilitated ( posthumously of course) - all 7? of them. I'm sure it makes them feel soooooo much better in their graves)))))
I was looking for a third yet Pavlov, Director of Far North Construction (Gulag) K.A. Pavlov, of whom Stalin praised in 1939 and came into power 1938.

Specifically so I could post this:

Gulag mine foremen had previously always overestimated production compared to proven engineer calculations. To remedy, (K.A.) Pavlov ordered "overestimation" a trial offense -- so production became always under stated, with 6 men shot. This in turn led to reprisal shootings for the offense of malingering sabotage, 30 to 50 men on some nights in one mine alone.

It is estimated in Kolyma, every kilogram of gold production cost one human life, at around a couple of millions of Kg and victims. Under Pavlov, so many skilled people were liquidated that production per person fell considerably. Beira is written to have become angry with his subordinate later, due in large part to the faltering. Perhaps because killing off huge numbers of people was pretty much the norm in managerial 1938 Soviet Union, Pavlov apparently was not arrested but apparently only transferred. Earlier bosses were quickly shot as a matter of policy. I am interested what fate became of this goon Pavlov.
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