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Old 01-24-2013, 08:14 PM
 
508 posts, read 889,620 times
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Nieuw-Amsterdam would be a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in fashion similar to Sint Maarten. The jurisdiction would surely be a major commercial and financial hub as it is today.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:28 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,820 posts, read 12,026,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
Perhaps Dutch instead of English would have been now be the main international language of business.
I dont think English is the international language of business because of New York!
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,584 posts, read 84,795,337 times
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I am of English and Dutch descent and every day I look out at New York Harbor and imagine my ancestors going at each other with cannon fire!

But good post, NJGoat. The exchange of NY between the Dutch and English wasn't as cut and dried as we get in elementary school.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:51 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,048,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I am of English and Dutch descent and every day I look out at New York Harbor and imagine my ancestors going at each other with cannon fire!

But good post, NJGoat. The exchange of NY between the Dutch and English wasn't as cut and dried as we get in elementary school.
Don't forget it could have just as easily stayed in Swedish hands.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:40 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,632 posts, read 14,943,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
I dont think English is the international language of business because of New York!
Oh, I think New York has a lot to do with it ... the New York Stock Exchange, American Stock Exchange, the New York Mercantile Exchange, everything else on Wall street, the Federal Reserve Bank, etc.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:52 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,035 posts, read 10,296,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Oh, I think New York has a lot to do with it ... the New York Stock Exchange, American Stock Exchange, the New York Mercantile Exchange, everything else on Wall street, the Federal Reserve Bank, etc.
Yes, but the English speaking capital likely would have gone to Philly, which was a rival to Wall Street for a long time. There would be no Federal Reserve Bank of New York if the city were part of a different country.

Also, as wonderful as the harbor is, what really made the city was the Erie Canal. I don’t think Americans (or the British) would have invested that kind of capital to benefit a Dutch city.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:40 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,820 posts, read 12,026,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Oh, I think New York has a lot to do with it ... the New York Stock Exchange, American Stock Exchange, the New York Mercantile Exchange, everything else on Wall street, the Federal Reserve Bank, etc.
I think that there are many reasons why English has become the primary world language, You dont suppose the British Empire has anything to do with it then?
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:22 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,691,956 times
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Originally Posted by easthome View Post
I think that there are many reasons why English has become the primary world language, You dont suppose the British Empire has anything to do with it then?
There are many reasons why English has become the "Lingua Franca" (aka ELF) and many would say that US economic, cultural and geopolitical dominance does have a lot to do with it.

Certainly the root of ELF is the British Empire. The British ruled a quarter of the known world even into the 20th century. Throughout much of the 18th and 19th centuries the British were the most dominant power on Earth. The role of Queen Victoria should also not be overlooked as her children married into the royal families of Russia and Germany as well as many noble families in Germany making English a sort of court language among the elite.

The American role though was one tied to spreading English even further. Even as early as the immediate post-Revolution years, the US operated the largest mercantile fleet in the world. American ships traded worldwide and in every port. These American traders of course conducted their business in English and many trade ports conducted business in English in order to deal with British and American traders.

So, that was basically the root. However, what has made English so dominant beginning in the mid-20th century is almost solely do to American influence. Technology has also forced the necessity of ELF usage in order to allow better communication in business and travel. All air traffic control globally is conducted in English. Computer programming is generally done in English. Many international contracts even when they do not have a native English speaking nation involved are written in English. The UN while recognizing six official languages conducts almost all of its business in English (for instance while all resolutions and documents must be made in all six languages when published, almost all drafts are created and debated in English) and that is the preferred language for delegates.

American commercial and cultural influence has made English the preferred second language for virtually all industrialized nations and among second and third world nations is almost universally taught to the children of the elite. American universities are widely attended by foreigners further reinforcing English as a main language of business and the educated class in all nations. Finally and maybe most of all, American culture is global. From music to movies to video games, American culture can be found in virtually every corner of the world. Most music is not changed from English to the local native tongue and many international recording artists even from other countries record songs in English. Movies are occasionally dubbed into a local native language, but many are simply subtitlted driving a desire to better learn English. Video games are a global phenomenon and people who play them tend to want to learn English even if the only reason they would use it is to insult the person they just fragged in Call of Duty, lol.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,727 posts, read 6,223,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Don't forget it could have just as easily stayed in Swedish hands.
Since we are discussing what if, what if the Five Nations had not engaged in the half century long Beaver Wars against other tribes, which bled their strength severely, but instead focused on expelling the European powers, could they have done so? The Iroquois Confederacy in the mid 17th century was perhaps the most powerful military force in North America, or were they? Were the European colonists already too numerous and too strong to be driven out?
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:50 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,820 posts, read 12,026,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
There are many reasons why English has become the "Lingua Franca" (aka ELF) and many would say that US economic, cultural and geopolitical dominance does have a lot to do with it.

Certainly the root of ELF is the British Empire. The British ruled a quarter of the known world even into the 20th century. Throughout much of the 18th and 19th centuries the British were the most dominant power on Earth. The role of Queen Victoria should also not be overlooked as her children married into the royal families of Russia and Germany as well as many noble families in Germany making English a sort of court language among the elite.

The American role though was one tied to spreading English even further. Even as early as the immediate post-Revolution years, the US operated the largest mercantile fleet in the world. American ships traded worldwide and in every port. These American traders of course conducted their business in English and many trade ports conducted business in English in order to deal with British and American traders.

So, that was basically the root. However, what has made English so dominant beginning in the mid-20th century is almost solely do to American influence. Technology has also forced the necessity of ELF usage in order to allow better communication in business and travel. All air traffic control globally is conducted in English. Computer programming is generally done in English. Many international contracts even when they do not have a native English speaking nation involved are written in English. The UN while recognizing six official languages conducts almost all of its business in English (for instance while all resolutions and documents must be made in all six languages when published, almost all drafts are created and debated in English) and that is the preferred language for delegates.

American commercial and cultural influence has made English the preferred second language for virtually all industrialized nations and among second and third world nations is almost universally taught to the children of the elite. American universities are widely attended by foreigners further reinforcing English as a main language of business and the educated class in all nations. Finally and maybe most of all, American culture is global. From music to movies to video games, American culture can be found in virtually every corner of the world. Most music is not changed from English to the local native tongue and many international recording artists even from other countries record songs in English. Movies are occasionally dubbed into a local native language, but many are simply subtitlted driving a desire to better learn English. Video games are a global phenomenon and people who play them tend to want to learn English even if the only reason they would use it is to insult the person they just fragged in Call of Duty, lol.
I agree America in the 20th Century is one reason why English has become the 'worlds' dominant language but American culture? American culture is English culture with a lot of other cultures mixed in! English culture is Greek culture with a lot of other cultures mixed in. Why oh why do 'some' Americans have this tendancy to believe that everything in the world is 'American'!! From Denim (French) to Computers (British) to Pizza (Italian) to cars (German) Americans seem to think they invented it all!!
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