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"Civillity, respect, and dignity"; is THAT what they got at Auschwitz, Treblinka, Buchenwald, in the Warsaw Ghetto, from the Einsatzgruppen in Russia, etc.? Shot into a mass grave, or up in smoke; how respectful & dignified!
Read about what the Belgians did in the Congo, and get back to me on the comparison.
Revisionists are starting to punch some serious holes in the holocaust story. And no, most revisionists are not flying saucer believers but many are educated PHds
You mean respected academics like David Irving?
As for the Germans not starting WWII, surely you realize that it's a matter of when one considers the war to begin, and when one considers it a world war. What's your logic here? Blaming Britain and France for honoring their commitment to go to war over the Nazi invasion of Poland? The Americas and Africa weren't really in it yet except for Allied colonies along for the ride? Or are you perhaps arguing that Gleiwitz wasn't actually a Naujocks Nazi escapade, but an actual Polish assault?
It would make more logical sense to move the Holocaust out of the classification of war crimes and view it instead as the crime of genocide, independent of its relationship to the war. The Third Reich's crimes against Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and other "undesirables" began before the war got underway in 1939.
I suspect that it was decided to view those actions as war crimes because there was no international court in which to try those who participated in the genocide. There was however, an allied war crimes court.
I agree that it should be separated in these types of discussions, poor example, but I felt the point illustrated the "difference" I was getting at.
You are exactly right that the Holocaust got lumped in with the war crimes trials, precisely because no other method or laws existed for prosecuting such a crime.
Instead of simply repeating the list of facts that you so conveniently ignore as I attempt to dispel your statements, I'm just going to ask some questions that you can answer in detail and we can address those individual points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angorlee
Actually the Germans were innocent since Germany did not start WW2.
What do you consider to be the series of events that led to the outbreak of WW2 and in particular, what actions was Germany responding to that makes them innocent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angorlee
Revisionists are starting to punch some serious holes in the holocaust story. And no, most revisionists are not flying saucer believers but many are educated PHds
Which PhD academics are you drawing this conclusion from? What holes are they punching into the "story" of the Holocaust? Do you believe based on this research that it never happened at all, or do you believe that it has been grossly inflated, e.g. the Nazi's rounded people up, but there was no systemic genocide?
Actually the Germans were innocent since Germany did not start WW2.
Historically, the accepted date for the start of WWII was 9-1-39, when Germany invaded Poland. Perhaps you wish to go back to 1931, with the first Japanese" incident" against the Chinese in Manchuria, or, the accepted beginning of the Sino-Japanese War in 1937, at Peking.
However, I guess in some alternate universe, Germany was "innocent"!
I reckon they were just visiting in Poland, but then decided to stay for a while.
Read about what the Belgians did in the Congo, and get back to me on the comparison.
Why don't you just reply directly to the bloody question,! We are talking about Europe in the 1940's, not the Belgian Congo in the 1890's. By the way, what about your Deutsch colony in Southwest Africa, where between 25,000 and 100,00 Herero natives were killed in 1904? Oh, I just KNOW the answer will be that more than a million died in the Congo, but my question regarding German atrocities in WWII will be avoided!
Why don't you just reply directly to the bloody question,! We are talking about Europe in the 1940's, not the Belgian Congo in the 1890's. By the way, what about your Deutsch colony in Southwest Africa, where between 25,000 and 100,00 Herero natives were killed in 1904? Oh, I just KNOW the answer will be that more than a million died in the Congo, but my question regarding German atrocities in WWII will be avoided!
I don't know why I need to keep repeating everything over and over again, but my Congo references originated with my reply to
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
Or the absurd thesis of the OP that there was no ethical difference between Nazi Germany and the Allies...
As I recall, the Belgians were our Allies, and their ethical standards were vividly on display in the Congo. And people's ethics are not measured by the numbers of their victims, but by their willingness to commit atrocities on whatever number of victims are ready at hand. And they were contemporaries. Retired Belgian colonials, who had committed atrocities in the Congo, sat in Cafes and indignantly watched the German tanks roll through the streets.
What we are really talking about is the Christian Ethic (maybe even the Human Ethic), that has pervaded Europe for centuries, and knew no political boundaries in the Europe of 1940, or 1890 or any other time.
This European Christian Ethic has been pervasive right up to the present decade, when Clinton's Secretary of State Madeline Albright said the deaths of a half a million children in Iraq due to 1990's sanctions was "worth the price" for our international objectives.
I don't know why I need to keep repeating everything over and over again, but my Congo references originated with my reply to
As I recall, the Belgians were our Allies, and their ethical standards were vividly on display in the Congo. And people's ethics are not measured by the numbers of their victims, but by their willingness to commit atrocities on whatever number of victims are ready at hand.
What we are really talking about is the Christian Ethic, that has pervaded Europe for centuries, and knew no political boundaries in the Europe of 1940, or 1890 or any other time.
This European Christian Ethic has been pervasive right up to the present decade, when Clinton's Secretary of State Madeline Albright said the deaths of a half a million children in Iraq due to 1990's sanctions was "worth the price" of our international objectives.
Yet, AGAIN, no direct reply to my original question! Now, we are at Iraq in the 90's!!
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