Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Part of the difficulty with nailing down the locaiton is that the A20 was flown by many different countries during the war, but for the area you are talking about it would have either been British, French, Belgian or American.
(The Soviets did operate the A20 but the markings are all wrong and I just don't get "Russia/Eastern Europe" from those pictures.)
I can tell you that the tail markings are not correct for an American plane. That leaves Britain and France. A20's didn't go into operation in the RAF until early 1942 and they didn't fly their first combat mission over continental Europe until July 1942 when American crews flew British planes on a raid against Holland. However, the markings don't appear to be correct for the British either at least at the time a crashed British A20 would have been seen in Europe.
The French had a force of about 100 A20's that fought in the Battle of France. The French had also given the Belgian air force a group of 16 of them. From what I recall, the French planes were all (or at least almost all) evacuated to North Africa as France fell and that is where they stayed first under Vichy and then under Allied control. They didn't make it back to Europe until the very end of the war.
So, my guess would be that the picture is in Belgium or maybe northern France in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of France, so somewhere around July of 1940. If I was wrong on the plane, the whole theory could go out the window, but the A20 is the only plane that has that kind of tail section that I can think of and the proportions are right as the A20 was a small bomber/night fighter.
I must disagree that the aircraft is a Douglas A-20; the rudder looks to me to be that of a Tupolev SB, a Soviet medium bomber. Also, if the bomber was French, Belgian, or British, it would have the tricolor markings on the rudder, missing here. The number 9 also looks similiar to Russian usage.
Actually, the location could also be one of the Baltic Republics under Soviet ocupation; Lithuania, Latvia, or Estonia.
I agree; it could be an IL-4. Pretty certain it's an early war Russian light or medium bomber. They were shot down by the hundreds, flying unescorted on virtual suicide missions in 1941.
I stand corrected, good work guys. I was thinking non-Soviet as the OP seemed pretty positive the plane was in Belgium or France, the A20 was the only somewhat similar plane I could think of. I dismissed the lack of markings do to how rushed the early A20's were when the war broke out. The lack of markings also steered me away from Soviet since most of the ones I have ever seen had a big old Soviet star on them.
The IL-4 is a slam dunk though once you see it in pictures. Most telling was the rear gunner area and the shape of the "cage", you can see it lying on the ground in the pictures the OP posted. The number on the rudder also matches up with Russian markings on other IL-4's. As to when and where the picture was taken that could be anyones guess, but definitely Eastern Front. Maybe not Russia proper, but perhaps one of the Baltic States or even Poland. If I had to guess a timeframe based on the "look' of the soldiers and the picture, I'm thinking summer of 1941 in the months after the launch of Barbarossa when support elements were being moved into the newly occupied territories. The Soviets lost a lot of IL-4's on what amounted to suicide missions in the early days of the war.
...reps to all.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
