Egyptologist Robert Bauval Exposes the Lies of former HOA Zahi Hawass (ancient, war)
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Egyptologist Robert Bauval, who is credited with the theory that the pyramids align with the constellation of Orion is a well known and respected Egyptologist in the field. In the first video is a recent interview in which he is asked about the information that was withheld during the tenure of the now ousted former head of antiquities Zahi Hawass. He comments on his childish expulsion of Joann Fletcher when she announced the discovery of Nefertiti's mummy. Bauval talks about his unwillingness to accept the fact that Napta Playa (a much older advanced civilization in the ancient Sahara) was instrumental in the development of Dynastic Egypt. He also makes lengthy note of Zahi Hawass's refusal to accept the clear fact that the original ancient Egyptians were "black Africans" from "black Africa", and basically calls him a racist. He states that his lengthy time at the Head of Antiquities was supported by no one other than the West (America).
I believe that what we've always thought to have known about ancient Egypt will be flipped on it's head, with new leadership who aren't afraid to tell the truth.
Egyptologist Robert Bauval, who is credited with the theory that the pyramids align with the constellation of Orion is a well known and respected Egyptologist...
As a newbie you don't realize the history we've had with this subject of "are the egyptians black or not", but let me give you a hint - none of them went well. There is a reason that the subject is not relevant to "real" egyptologists, and I don't classify Bauval as a real egyptologists, certainly not a respected one.
One of the reasons for his lack of credibility being his claim that the pyramids have some magical and mythical alignment with the constellation. Egyptologists have a word for those types -
PYRAMIDIOTS.
Hawass was always a "look at me!" spotlight hogging, megalomaniacal politico who was completely, totally, 100% unable to think outside the 100 yr old+ traditional Egyptology box.
I'm not talking about "aliens built the pyramids" B.S.; Hawas refused to even consider other points of view from legitimate Archelologists. It was his way or the highway.
But at least he did his best to protect ancient Egyptian sites/artifacts, and in that respect he did a great job.
As a newbie you don't realize the history we've had with this subject of "are the egyptians black or not", but let me give you a hint - none of them went well.
There should be not debate about this in 2012. Here is a 2011 NYTimes article on Nubia and ancient Egypt:
Quote:
More recently, our own Western prejudices — namely the idea that geographic Egypt was not a part of “black” Africa — have contributed to the dearth of knowledge about Nubia. The early-20th-century archaeologist George Reisner, for instance, identified large burial mounds at the site of Kerma as the remains of high Egyptian officials instead of those of Nubian kings. (Several of Reisner’s finds are in the show, reattributed to the Nubians.)............
In one of his catalog essays the archaeologist Geoff Emberling, who conceived the show along with Jennifer Chi of the institute, examines some of these historical errors.
“We now recognize that populations of Nubia and Egypt form a continuum rather than clearly distinct groups,” Mr. Emberling writes, “and that it is impossible to draw a line between Egypt and Nubia that would indicate where ‘black’ begins.”
Here is a 8 part lecture at the University of Manchester on the peopling of ancient Egypt, which concludes that they were originally Nilotic Saharans and Afrasian East Africans
The Fitzwilliams Museum (along with many other top institutions) has recently dedicated an exhibit to placing ancient Egypt back into it's proper black African historical context. Here is their webpage dedicated to that issue. In my opinion this is something that Western conservative historians need to get over and accept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
There is a reason that the subject is not relevant to "real" egyptologists, and I don't classify Bauval as a real egyptologists, certainly not a respected one.
Certainly in fields such as Egyptology (like other fields) there are bound to be differing opinions on contentious subjects, but aside from a few individuals who dispute Buvaul's theory of the Orion correlation with the Pyramids I don't know of any institutional shunning of the man. The man has been on Egyptian specials from the National Geographic and BBC to Asian channels. I'd take his word over the proven lies of detested dictator Zahi Hawass any day of the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
One of the reasons for his lack of credibility being his claim that the pyramids have some magical and mythical alignment with the constellation. Egyptologists have a word for those types -
PYRAMIDIOTS.
Last time I checked the criticism of his theory was in turn criticized by high end institutions:
Quote:
According to Bauval and Hancock, some astronomers (including Dr. Archie Roy, Dr. Percy Seymour, Dr. Mary Bruck, Dr. Giulio Magli), however, have rejected Krupp's argument. The correlation, they claim, is a visual one when standing north of the Giza pyramids and looking south. Archie Roy, professor Emeritus of Astronomy at Glasgow University, and Percy Seymour, astronomer and astrophysicist at Plymouth University U.K., have both publicly rejected several of Krupp's arguments, including the accusation that Bauval and Gilbert purposefully inverted the pyramid map.
In a ruling by the Broadcasting Standards Commission (UK), the committee ruled in favour of Robert Bauval that Krupp's statement that maps were placed upside down was "unfairly" presented in the BBC documentary Atlantis Reborn, without Bauval given a right to a filmed response. Bauval and Hancock's filmed responses to Krupp's statements were included in the modified version of the documentary Atlantis Reborn Again shown on 14 December 2000.
*sigh* You are going to force this discussion aren't you? There is no debate about it because it does not warrant a debate. Let me explain and let this be my last word on the subject while it goes on for 20 pages in meaningless diatrabes with the obligatory bans and moderator edits that will follow - The reason it is irrelevant to mainstream egyptologists is that the concept of black vs. white is not a scientific concept, it's a social concept. There is not a test in the world that will determine if a person, living or dead, is black or white, except visual.
Ancient Egyptians did not define themeselves by such a meaningless measure as color of skin, but they defined themeselves as simply being egyptian, a seperate entity, thus they painted and portrayed themselves as seperate and different then the nations and tribes to the south, and those to the northeast. So why should the question of skin pigmintation be so meaningful now as it certainly had no bearing then? And that reason is that the subject has been taken over by people with a modern agenda that has nothing to do with advancing our knowledge of Ancient Egypt.
As far as Buvaul, wasn't he the host or contributor to the History Channel show "Ancient Aliens"? haha, I'm sorry, but that contribution to his resume puts at least his motive (turning the field into "pop-psuedo science" for fun and profit) into question.
...and, dude, give us a break with the youtube links and quotes. Come up with your own ideas.
The reason it is irrelevant to mainstream egyptologists is that the concept of black vs. white is not a scientific concept, it's a social concept.
Firstly who do you consider to be mainstream Egyptologist, and how could you possibly know that they have never delve onto the aspect of Egyptology dealing with physical appearance of the ancient Egyptians?
In fact, here is the Encyclopedia of Archaeology of Ancient Egypt written by Kathryn A. Bard and co authored by a host of other scholars. In it they devote an entire section to the physical appearance of the ancient Egyptians, and here is what it states:
Quote:
Two opposing theories for the origin of Dynastic Egyptians dominated scholarly debate over the last century: whether the ancient Egyptians were black Africans (historically referred to as Negroid) originating biologically and culturally in Saharo-Tropical Africa, or whether they originated as a Dynastic Race in the Mediterranean or western Asian regions (people historically categorized as White, or Caucasoid). ..[....]There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas..[...] Any interpretation of the biological affinities of the ancient Egyptians must be placed in the context of hypothesis informed by the archaeological, linguistic, geographic or other data. In this context the physical anthropological evidence indicates that the early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation. This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection influenced by culture and geography[/SIZE]
That the ancient Egyptians were black Africans (as Buvaul stated). I fully accept the fact that the concept of race is invalid in the scientific community.The use of this anthropological data however is to give a specified physical description of these ancient Africans.
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Originally Posted by Dd714
Ancient Egyptians did not define themeselves by such a meaningless measure as color of skin, but they defined themeselves as simply being egyptian,
No one is proclaiming that the ancient Egyptians were walking about with "black power" t-shirts or anything, but what Buvual is stating is that their physical appearance based on their remains is consistent with various black African populations. It has nothing to do with how the ancient Egyptians identified themselves.
One problem with Zahi Hawass was that he was "Egyptocentric" (and a racist), meaning that he refused to accept the proven fact that Egyptians and Egyptians civilization did not just spring up from it's own bubble. It had it's roots in other African cultures, which can still be seen today (in those other Africans) .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
And that reason is that the subject has been taken over by people with a modern agenda that has nothing to do with advancing our knowledge of Ancient Egypt.
It sounds noble, but what must first be acknowledged is the mistakes of the past. Egyptology is a field that originated during Colonial and unmistakably has it's roots in anti-black African racism which persist somewhat to this very day. That is why in pop culture we routinely see ancient Egypt was a fair skinned or even "white" civilization:
When that clearly was not the case. The truth is all that is being asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
As far as Buvaul, wasn't he the host or contributor to the History Channel show "Ancient Aliens"?
Well he has been on National Geographic, BBC, Channel 4, History Channel, CNN, ABC, NBC, Rai 2, European, Middle Eastern, and Asian Channels, so it wouldn't surprise me. I wonder why you are so eager to attack his credibility? It is because he dared proposed a "wild" yet substantiated theory for the mystery of the pyramids? Are we still supposed to believe that the pyramids were built to house the remains of pharaohs, as people did 100 years ago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
...and, dude, give us a break with the youtube links and quotes. Come up with your own ideas.
OK, so I guess the fact that the "youtube link" given was an hour long lecture on the bio-cultural origins of ancient Egypt at one of the most prestigious universities in the World (Manchester) and uploaded on their official channel page didn't set in with you? Nor the fact that I gave the official page of Fitzwilliam's museum supporting this stance? Or maybe you didn't notice the fact that in the NYtimes article linked to you were the words of renown Egyptologist stating that Egypt and Nubia formed a "black continuum" didn't sit quite well with you, after all according to you respected Egyptologist don't care about that subject
So this thread actually has nothing to do with Egyptology in particular or archaeology in general. It's a tug of war about (who would've suspected?) race.
So this thread actually has nothing to do with Egyptology in particular or archaeology in general. It's a tug of war about (who would've suspected?) race.
Pretty much, but I find the OP's posts unreadible and illegible with all the imbedded quotes, pictures, and youtube links. Most of his quotes aren't even relevant. *yawn*...nothing that hasn't been discussed before. Nothing to see here.
I've no background in any of this and am not qualified to offer an opinion as to the racial identity of the ancient Egyptians. However, perhaps it might be of some help if the OP offered some conclusions about why this is an important distinction to make. As in "The ancient Egyptians were actually black Africans....therefore.....?" What?
Here we go again. Yet another attempt by the Leonard Jeffries brigade to destroy all the progress academia has made in regards to Africana studies over the past decades and to drag civilization to their decrepit level.
As I have stated again and again, these freaks have no interest at all in the study of history, its used as a mask and cover for their desire to destroy themselves and everything around them.
The link in the below post is to a forum seemingly about biodiversity:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unbreakable
I linked you and everyone else to this thread on a biodiversity
Its been some years, but from what I remember from that site, it was a favorite haunt for the afronuts and other racialists to spew their garbage. Not surprised at all, that this latest freak linked to that site.
The thread has been closed but again not surprised at this comment coming from an afronut:
That's probably because 90% of the businesses in that area of LA were 't Korean or white owned. You should actually read up on the incident of why Koreans were a main target in that riot.
Once again, I repeat and I strongly emphasize this, THESE FREAKS DO NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE STUDY OF HISTORY AND CULTURE, AT ALL.
These new black panther groupies and other types of afronuts seem determined to do everything in their power to destroy Africana & Sahara studies, Egyptology and every other academic scholars and institutions who have risked their careers and lives trying to overcome the legacies of colonialism.
These freaks want to pull another Khalid Muhammed. Khalid was a former member of the Nation of islam, apparently he was too much even for Louie and got the boot.
He later formed the new black panther party. I remember talking to many Afro-American veterans of the movements from the 60's & 70's and they WERE NOT AT ALL APPROVING, of what Khalid did at the million youth march.
You do not incite teenagers and children to engage one of the best trained paramilitary organizations in the world, while you, yourself disappear into the mist. Many of the Afro-American parents I talked with at the time were really p!ssed off about his actions.
There are definitely issues that can't be swept under the rug, and the lunatic fringe are absolutely the last ones that should be allowed to control the debate.
Last edited by kovert; 04-20-2012 at 08:40 AM..
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