Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I suggest we clean out the prisons here....and make those slugs do some work. Maybe Stalin did not do it right....but he did not waste a lot of money on building fancy prisons....just send them to Siberia....and work them to death. No loss here if we could do that with all those folks who are in prison for life here....
Curiously, I just came across an article on a similar railroad.
The April 1919 edition of National Geographic has an article "The Murman Coast - Our Gateway to Russia." The railroad became the one that went south from Murmansk, and supplied U.S. and other troops during WW I.
"There were occasions when the track suddenly subsided, due to the fact that the rails had been laid upon what were thought to be rocks, but which proved, with the thaw of spring, to be ice."
According to the propaganda "the death rate was exceedingly low..."
I think Communism offered something different and a chance for a better life then what existed under the Tsar. However, I think you know as well as I do that Russians didn't exactly foresake their religion in favor of the religion of Communism. While the state did it's best to suppress the power of the Orthodox Church, large segments of the population held onto their religion. What did they do to lift the spirits of the people besieged in Leningrad? They paraded an icon of Our Lady of Kazan through the streets and placed it on the battlements.
Well... Again yes and no ( this is probably the best way to approach anything when talking about Russia.)
See, it's not easy to separate church from religion and Orthodox church in Russia in many ways was/is similar to Catholic Church, because it was political, siding with rich and powerful. ( Still does by the way, if you heard lately about the case with "***** Riot." This particular band recently staged a prank prayer in Moscow's biggest cathedral, asking virgin Mary to remove Putin from power. The result? The authorities and church are united again, and the members of this band were held in jail already for few months and they are facing seven years in prison.of the band are regarded as dangerous criminals, who dared to rebel against the "Church and Tzar." ***** Riot Release: Intellectuals Demand Freedom For Anti-Putin Rockers
The Orthodox Church is known ( yet again) for getting its riches from the government ( including wildlife sanctuaries) and supporting the government in return. A lot of Russians are saying that Orthodox Church, apparently, didn't learn its lesson back in 1917. That tells you right there that a lot of Russians thought that Orthodox Church got what it deserved for its hypocrisy/phariseeism. However these people are not necessarily atheists.
Others of course accept the mysticism of Russian Orthodox and Church can do no wrong in their eyes.
( Yes, church, religion and the role of church in Russia are very different comparably to the United States, be that Black or White Churches.)
I didn't know about the parading of the icon in besieged Leningrad, however I understand that WWII was a disaster of biblical proportions for Russians and it was only natural that they've turned to God, Orthodox Church or not.
Quote:
The macro point there being that people justify suffering by invoking greater purpose. The people who suffered building the railway in the article accepted it because they thought it would help the nation.
It's one of Russian historical traits by the way - they think that their suffering through centuries has certain purpose and they, as people, have the special mission when it comes to God.
Quote:
However, I imagine those who were left naked for mosquitos to dine on before they died spent a good amount of time praying.
That is if they were believers to begin with, because as you can understand there enough of atheists in Russia as anywhere else.
Quote:
This is getting pretty philosophical, but yes and no. I think people seek the "grander incentives" as a way to justify their suffering in the absence of material reward, which in some cases, the reward may simply be ones life. Basically, most are satisfied by material reward, it is only when material reward does not exist that people look for the greater meaning.
But if what you are saying is true, than that would make Americans the biggest disbelievers and people who are removed the most from god ( if I can put it this way,) because this is the culture that is basically built on material rewards.
Quote:
I don't know, Hitler certainly tried and had plans to kill as many Russians as he could. Would he have ultimately succeeded, who knows.
If he would have succeeded, his General Plan Ost would have come to life; after all isn't what it was all about?
The point being that the suffering caused by Stalins actions are solely justified by Russians because they achieved an end. If that end had been different and the suffering for nought, then people would not as fondly remember him. Nicholas II for instance could not hold a candle to the suffering imposed by Stalin. However, Nicholas II isn't fondly remembered because he lost the war and was an incompetent ruler. The people who suffered under him had no greater purpose to their suffering.[/quote]
People don't remember "fondly" Nicholas II for a different reason; he basically signed his own death warrant back in 1905, on Bloody Sunday.
Bloody Sunday (Russian: Крова́вое воскресе́нье; IPA: [krɐˈvavəjə vəskrʲɪˈsʲenʲjə]) was a massacre on Jan. 22 [O.S. January 9] 1905 in St. Petersburg, Russia, where unarmed, peaceful demonstrators marching to present a petition to the TsarNicholas II were gunned down by the Imperial Guard while approaching the city center and the Winter Palace from several gathering points.
And of course these people were coming with petition to tzar out of sheer desperation, because their life was so destitute.
So when you are saying that Nicholas II couldn't "hold a candle" to Stalin - he probably could, actually...
"In the Russian Arctic lies buried an unfinished railway built by prisoners of Stalin's gulags. For decades no-one talked about it. But one woman is now telling the story of the thousands who suffered there - and there is talk of bringing back to life the abandoned railway itself."
1. "In the Russian Arctic line" there live people, and people need railways. So, what is wrong with it?
2. GULAG was part of Soviet penal system. What country does not have penal system?
3. And what is wrong with criminals working for the benefit of society?
2. GULAG was part of Soviet penal system. What country does not have penal system?
3. And what is wrong with criminals working for the benefit of society?
Oh nothing, nothing wrong with it, except for the fact that anyone could have been labeled as "criminal" in Stalin's times and sent to work in penal system "for the benefit of the society."
Oh nothing, nothing wrong with it, except for the fact that anyone could have been labeled as "criminal" in Stalin's times and sent to work in penal system "for the benefit of the society."
The most ridiculous claim so far!
Are you seriously saying your propaganda edumacation did not tell you that in the USSR there was a Constitution; there were laws; there was judiciary, courts, etc.?
Maybe you are of an opinion that the Soviet society was so perfect it had no crime?!
Are you seriously saying your propaganda edumacation did not tell you that in the USSR there was a Constitution; there were laws; there was judiciary, courts, etc.?
Maybe you are of an opinion that the Soviet society was so perfect it had no crime?!
... o, dear...
Are you bored?
Or are you trying to practice your English here, on this board?
Sounds like Russia would hve been in no worse hands if they invited Hitlers armies in as welcome guest. Tortured and killed by Stalin or Hitler, end result is the same. Guess it's better to suffer at the hands of a fellow citizen than that of a Foreigner?
I say anyone who goes to prison in the U.S. should have to work for every thing they get. Like good food (give gross food so they will work for the good stuff), clothes, bedding, heating, A.C., etc and they should also have to pay a tax.
Are you bored?
Or are you trying to practice your English here, on this board?
I am amused at the level of ignorance of an average Westerner regarding the Soviet Union.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
