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Old 07-17-2012, 09:42 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,341,064 times
Reputation: 4798

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolefan34 View Post
BigJon-

I hate when people do line by line dissections of posts rather than having a discussion, so I'm not going to respond to each item. Too much time required. I'll just say this. I think Reagan was overall a solid president simply because he was a good leader. However, I think his economic policies were disastrous. Again, Reagan:

-was a liberal politician from California originally
-ran up huge budget deficits 10-20 times what his predecessor Jimmy Carter did.
-participated in the Iran-Contra Affair to have the hostages released the day he took office
-began the process of outsourcing manufacturing jobs overseas
-wages declined during his presidency for average Americans
-crime rose during his presidency
-created an economic recession known as the "Reagan Recession" his first few years in office
-raised taxes during his presidency
-deregulated various industries such as air traffic controllers and the trucking industry which was disastrous

I can go on and on, but these are just some examples of why I do not think Reagan was a great president. I'm sure you'll disagree and you probably think tax breaks for rich people are wonderful. But go ahead.
-Yes, he was a FDR democrat and campaigned for Truman. He wasn't a politician by any means at that point. The most public thing he did was become the president of the Screen Actors Guild. About 1950 something changed in him and he moved towards being a conservative republican. He claims that democrats were more sympathetic to communism and that's why. Nancy was a conservative republican and I'm sure that had a strong tendency to change his mind. In fact, Reagan stood up for Nancy when she was accused of being a communist

-In Carter's four years as president he ran deficits equal to $252.709 billion. In Reagan's 8 years as president he ran deficits equal to $1,412.228 billion. That's not 10 - 20 times what Carter ran.

-Iran-Contra had nothing to do with the release of the hostages on the day Reagan took office.
Quote:
The Iran Hostage Initiative, 1985-1986

In an effort to convince elements in Iran to use their influence to obtain the release of U.S. hostages in Lebanon, the President and his advisers in 1985 embarked upon the sale of arms to Iran, first through Israel, and subsequently directly through the CIA, under the operating direction of North, and using the Secord-Hakim ``Enterprise'' as a cut-out to disguise CIA involvement. In both phases, the President directed that Congress not be notified.49
Walsh Iran / Contra Report - Chapter 27 President Reagan

Reagan was under the impression from his staff that the hostages would likely be murdered if nothing was done. He chose (and it's right there in the report) to take the heat of explaining a breach of policy because he wouldn't be able to explain having the hostages murdered.

-The process of outsourcing jobs overseas is inevitable. The only way you'll keep some of these low skilled jobs is to lower wages to meet demand overseas, start a world war and destroy their infrastructures (again) or wait for a natural extinction type event to occur. Reagan chose to let jobs go overseas and fund massively the technology sector of the economy and replace those low skilled jobs with higher skilled ones. This is an inevitable that will continue no matter who is president barring taking the later two options of world war or waiting around for an extinction type event and hope it doesn't happen on our side of the hemisphere.

- Th lowest quintile wages increased from $4,790 to $6,994. The next highest quintile wages increased from $12,121 to $17,401. The next quintile wages increased from $20,064 to $28,925. The next quintile wages increased from $29,840 to $43,753. The top quintile wages increased from $54,729 to $85,529. The top 5% wages increased from $82,697 to $138,185. Someone has lied to you and you didn't check up on it to see if it was true or not.

-Crime didn't rise during his presidency. I've already provided proof that it didn't and do not need to spam up the boards doing it over and over again. If you don't like the data that's tough 'ish.

-Ah, the Reagan Recession. Yeah, he took the heat for that but how else were we suppose to get all of the excess dollars out of the economy without increasing interest rates dramatically. That was Paul Volcker whose plan that was and he already started it in the Carter administration. Reagan understood what he was doing and didn't step in to save his political neck. He took a chance and it paid off, big time. January 1981 there were 99,955,000 people employed in the civilian labor force. In December of 1989 there were 117,830,000 people employed in the civilian labor force.

-Reagan did raise taxes during his administration, right after he dropped dramatically more. One of the things he raised taxes on was SS which is the only reason you see it in its present form today. When he left office taxes were overall lower than when he took office and revenues increased dramatically by having put 17,875,000 people to work.

-The Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 wasn't Reagan's initiative despite what democrats try to blame him for (for more than obvious reasons) and neither was the Motor Carrier Act of 1980. While we're at it neither was the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980.

Tax breaks to a certain point are good for everyone. Tax breaks where the government takes in zero dollars would be bad for everyone. Conversely taxes where the government takes in 100% of income would also be a bad thing. None of that really matter though because taxes will have to be increased now. The path we're on is unsustainable and it's really so much worse than you could possibly imagine in regards to pretty much everything related to the Federal government.
Quote:
Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archive...echoosing.html

A little prophetic humor:

Quote:
I must say that returning to Washington today really brought back memories. As our plane headed toward the airport, I looked down on the White House, and it was just like the good old days...the South Lawn, the Rose Garden...David Gergen. I looked over a couple of blocks, and there was the Internal Revenue Service--bigger than I ever remembered it. When I looked down at the enormous United States Post Office building I could just see the excitement on the faces of the bureaucrats--knowing they would soon be managing our national health care system! Up on Capital Hill, I saw that big, white dome, bulging with new tax revenues.
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/rr40/s...ala_speech.htm

Last edited by BigJon3475; 07-17-2012 at 09:58 PM..
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:08 AM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,991,882 times
Reputation: 1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Th lowest quintile wages increased from $4,790 to $6,994. The next highest quintile wages increased from $12,121 to $17,401. The next quintile wages increased from $20,064 to $28,925. The next quintile wages increased from $29,840 to $43,753. The top quintile wages increased from $54,729 to $85,529. The top 5% wages increased from $82,697 to $138,185. Someone has lied to you and you didn't check up on it to see if it was true or not.
You are using non-inflation adjusted dollars. Once you take inflation into account, the real story becomes clearer. Adjusted to 2007 dollars, the lowest quintile went from $16,000 in 1980 to 15,200 in 1988. The next highest also went down: $34,700 to $34,400; At the third quintile you see a little improvement $52,300 to $54,400, The second-highest went up even more: $71,000 to $77,400, Finally here's where the real gains were at the highest end: $135,700 to $174,800
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
414 posts, read 1,089,259 times
Reputation: 624
I think Reagan's primary quality that led to a very successful presidency was leadership. He was able to unite Republicans of all types and even some Democrats and share his vision of a successful, prosperous United States of America, one where we weren't oppressive, or trying to foist our views upon other nations, but instead the prime example of power through freedom and leadership in the world. He got people to work together towards that vision. Our more recent presidents have been much more divisive both domestically and internationally, presenting either weakness and apologetic traits to the rest of the world or trying to spread our values forcibly rather than through example and vision. Reagan certainly wasn't strong in knowing every detail of policy, but he tended to be a uniter rather than a divider, which spoke powerfully to people.

Which is why the 1984 presidential election map looked like this.


That is a near-perfect image, not of political division but of unity behind a leader with vision.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,767 posts, read 2,340,246 times
Reputation: 634
.


Reagan was an actor before and after he became president.

Bush was in control.



.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:20 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,455 posts, read 33,141,227 times
Reputation: 7594
Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
.

Reagan was an actor before and after he became president.

Bush was in control.

.
He was also governor of the most populous state. Did Bush "help" him then?

Next time, try making an accurate post.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,767 posts, read 2,340,246 times
Reputation: 634
.


Bush is still in control.


.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:02 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,767 posts, read 2,340,246 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post


He was also governor of the most populous state. Did Bush "help" him then?

Whoever pulled Reagan's strings in Cali was a spendthrift who loved to raise taxes.



.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:03 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,341,064 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
- Th lowest quintile wages increased from $4,790 to $6,994. The next highest quintile wages increased from $12,121 to $17,401. The next quintile wages increased from $20,064 to $28,925. The next quintile wages increased from $29,840 to $43,753. The top quintile wages increased from $54,729 to $85,529. The top 5% wages increased from $82,697 to $138,185. Someone has lied to you and you didn't check up on it to see if it was true or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
You are using non-inflation adjusted dollars. Once you take inflation into account, the real story becomes clearer. Adjusted to 2007 dollars, the lowest quintile went from $16,000 in 1980 to 15,200 in 1988. The next highest also went down: $34,700 to $34,400; At the third quintile you see a little improvement $52,300 to $54,400, The second-highest went up even more: $71,000 to $77,400, Finally here's where the real gains were at the highest end: $135,700 to $174,800
Quote:
1982 dollars - 1989 dollars - Adj. to 2007 dollars
$4,790 ------ $6,994 ----- $10,292/$11,694
$12,121 ----- $17,401 ---- $26,043/$29,096
$20,064 ----- $28,925 ---- $43,110/$48,366
$29,840 ----- $43,753 ---- $64,115/$73,160
$54,729 ----- $85,529 ---- $117,592/$143,014
$82,697 ----- $138,185 --- $177,684/$231,061
CPI Inflation Calculator
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:00 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,007,184 times
Reputation: 32571
Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
Whoever pulled Reagan's strings in Cali...



.
Reagan's string puller was a man named Holmes Tuttle. Yes. He had one. He continued this job after Reagan became president.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Vermont
11,754 posts, read 14,571,620 times
Reputation: 18502
We are still trying to recover from some of the evil that Reagan did when he was president.

Setting aside his Supreme Court appointments (Scalia continues to haunt us), possibly the worst thing he did was to convince people that they could have everything they want from their government and country without paying for it. It was Reagan, as much as any other single individual, who is responsible for the rabid anti-tax attitudes of today's Republicans, the teabaggers and Norquist acolytes who now run things in Washington.

Reagan came close to perfecting the art of using thinly veiled racism as a dog whistle tactic to gain votes, which helped to solidify the Republican hold on the South.

Consistent with his appeal to racists, Reagan embodied the voice of the sorehead, so often heard here, expressing a vicious resentment of the poor for any crumb they are able to obtain.

Reagan weakened the United States and rejected American ideals, supporting dictators and racist regimes in both hemispheres and establishing and funding terrorist groups in the Middle East.

Reagan was very successful in accomplishing what he set out to do. It would have been better if he had set out to do good for the people of the United States and the world.
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