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Old 08-14-2012, 08:43 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,528 posts, read 81,157,936 times
Reputation: 91107

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I have no idea why are you arguing with obvious; American cities ( as a rule) are poor when it comes to public transportation, they are built on a car dependency, unlike European cities, Russian cities including.
Agree. American cities, generally speaking (allowing for exceptions), fall short in public transport and overall design. However, we should acknowledge that Russian cities can fall short in highway/freeway design. Some have huge transportation bottlenecks from the "suburbs" into town, or even within town (Moscow being a prime example).
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:00 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 15,847,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Agree. American cities, generally speaking (allowing for exceptions), fall short in public transport and overall design. However, we should acknowledge that Russian cities can fall short in highway/freeway design. Some have huge transportation bottlenecks from the "suburbs" into town, or even within town (Moscow being a prime example).
Ruth, my guess is that the reason they have "transportation bottlenecks" from the suburbs into towns, is because they were never designed to have the amount of cars that crowded Moscow at present time.
The more Russia is trying to imitate America, the more it self-destructs, the way I see it.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:05 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,528 posts, read 81,157,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Ruth, my guess is that the reason they have "transportation bottlenecks" from the suburbs into towns, is because they were never designed to have the amount of cars that crowded Moscow at present time.
The more Russia is trying to imitate America, the more it self-destructs, the way I see it.
But the West manages to upgrade their roads as needed. Well, maybe now that the economy seems to have improved in Russia (relatively speaking), that will happen. I don't know if anything can be done about traffic in Moscow, without removing neighborhoods and causing extreme disruption and displacement. People would be really upset about being relocated from someplace central to those new suburbs-beyond-the-suburbs where the recent expansion took place, for example. I wonder how well new housing construction is doing, these days. There was always a huge deficit before.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:49 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,496,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
New York is the only city in the US that's comparable to European cities. ( Maybe couple of other places)
But those are exceptions, however the way other cities in Russia were planned was no different from Moscow.
I have no idea why are you arguing with obvious; American cities ( as a rule) are poor when it comes to public transportation, they are built on a car dependency, unlike European cities, Russian cities including.
Because you think it is an advantage, forgetting that unlike in Western Europe Soviet Russians could not afford cars. Public transportation was not a choice.... lol
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:51 PM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,820,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
It's not irrelevant, you made a statement that in 70's Russians could afford cars which is not TRUE...
That wasn't me...

Erasure has put it perfectly - just read again, without trying to read between the lines!

Quote:
All cities anywhere in the world are generally walkable but you can't claim entire, and quite big, country as walkable
Small town usually have everything close buy but big cities require travel just because it its size...
I can, because that's the way Russia is built. All of it!

A car in USSR wasn't just not required, but it was a burden - you simply saved time and money by not owning one.

The only exception is in the case of dacha - a car added a lot of convinience. But here's an interesting part - the labor cost of a car and a typical dacha were similar. Most city dwellers owned dachas...

If people desperately wanted cars, they would get hem. But then people would have to cut on some other luxuries, like dacha.

Quote:
As far as existence of excellent transportation systems in all Russian cities is concerned, well, now you entered science-fiction
In Soviet times things were really nice, despite rush-hour crowding in some cities. Today - mixed...

Quote:
Really? Are you saying there is no financial district? There is no theater district? Big offices and theaters are spread evenly all across the city? There is no big city on earth built on this planning philosophy.
Urban planning, Big Soviet Encyclopedia:

Quote:
... forming of thought out city road system (allowing to reach work and leasure places quickly), as well as an extensive network of cultural, domestic, medical, etc. services.

... dealt with by creating living districts, divided on microdistricts. Districts contain movie theaters, clubs, parks, clinics, birth clinics, malls, and other service places.
Quote:
When you compare Moscow to American city you can't compare it to Boston or Houston. New York's Manhattan is far more lively than any part of Moscow.
NYC is totally different from almost all American cities - and it is walkable. Moscow's no different from other Russian cities - except that it may actually be the least walkable.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:53 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,496,148 times
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Agree. American cities, generally speaking (allowing for exceptions), fall short in public transport and overall design. However, we should acknowledge that Russian cities can fall short in highway/freeway design. Some have huge transportation bottlenecks from the "suburbs" into town, or even within town (Moscow being a prime example).
Ruth, my guess is that the reason they have "transportation bottlenecks" from the suburbs into towns, is because they were never designed to have the amount of cars that crowded Moscow at present time.
The more Russia is trying to imitate America, the more it self-destructs, the way I see it.
You are such a close minded person, Russians do not imitate Americans, they want to be like thevGermans, the French or the English. They want to have such luxuries like personal cars. Amazing, isn't it?

Last edited by rebel12; 08-14-2012 at 10:03 PM..
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:56 PM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,820,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Gorbachev never intended to destroy the USSR. He wanted to improve it. He was devoted to the Party. Conspiracy theories don't apply here.
The conspiracy theory, propagated by neoliberals and the West, is that Soviet Union collapsed by itself

Quote:
But the West manages to upgrade their roads as needed. Well, maybe now that the economy seems to have improved in Russia (relatively speaking), that will happen.
There is nothing that can be done. Unless you start building roads above buildings

The fix to the transport collapse that Russia starts to experience is the same as in Europe - public transportation first, and to hell with cars.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:57 PM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,820,777 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
You are such a close minded person, Russians do not imitate Americans, they want to be like Germans, the French, the English. They want to have such luxuries like perosnal cars. Amazing, isn't it?
In 2012, the average Ivan is earning more than the average John. Amazing, isn't it?
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:00 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,496,148 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You are wrong again.
I've met enough of Europeans, who could understand Russia, in spite of the political system; some of them actually preferred to come on business trips to Russia, comparably to the US.
Quite honestly I was surprised to hear such opinion, so I asked "why."
A person told me that behind the facade of rigid political system he still saw the old culture, where in the US he said there was no particular culture, just programmed society.
I know those too. Most like the fact that in Russia girls are prettier and much cheaper. You know the reality of big Russian cities, don't you?

Nevertheless to most Europeans Russia is wild wild west inhabited by Mongol hordes, ready to attack and plunder. Europeans still remember who's rockets were aimedbat European cities or who occupied central Europe.
Don't fool yourself, most Europeans wouldn't dare to go to Moscow.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:00 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,528 posts, read 81,157,936 times
Reputation: 91107
Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
There is nothing that can be done. Unless you start building roads above buildings
Aren't you the guy who uploaded umpteen photos of the new bridge in Vladivostok?
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