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Old 08-17-2012, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 78,692,941 times
Reputation: 36342

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Such a heaven yet milllions were plotting how to get away and thousands did. Just like you both
99% of all Americans can trace their roots to ancestors (just like yours) who risked their lives and endured hardships to flee from reigns of terror and starvation economies in capitalist countries, where the wealth was concentrated in the fists of brutal landlords and moguls and princes. All the Swedes in Minnesota and Germans in Cincinnati and Irish in Boston and Poles in Chicago and Hispanics in Tucson and French in Louisiana and Italians in New York and Chinese in San Francisco, who were the communists they were trying to get away from?

Last edited by jtur88; 08-17-2012 at 09:30 AM..
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:11 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,507,117 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Rebel, didn't your Soviet Studies or Russian History class teach you that there was an Intelligentsia that didn't believe anything the gov't told them, a dissident movement, a Russian bard movement around popular dissident musicians, and so forth?
I have not learned about them in Soviet Studies but some other class so they also told us upfront that most of these movements were either started or deeply infililtrated by KGB or MVD.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
You should know this stuff. Besides, in the 80's the whole propaganda machine was pretty much over, anyway. After the free-wheeling (for youth, in some ways) 70's, it had no credibility left, hardly.
Putin doesn't know how to do things differently, being a product of the old system , and highly invested in it.
No. Propaganda machine was still well, only a little more subtle. The best proof that you are still repeating its tune

I disagree on Putin, this ex-KGB colonel surely knows how to do things differently but it is not in his interest...

Last edited by rebel12; 08-17-2012 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:13 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,507,117 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
99% of all Americans can trace their roots to ancestors (just like yours) who risked their lives and endured hardships to flee from reigns of terror and starvation economies in capitalist countries, where the wealth was concentrated in the fists of brutal landlords and moguls and princes. All the Swedes in Minnesota and Germans in Cincinnati and Irish in Boston and Poles in Chicago and Hispanics in Tucson and French in Louisiana and Italians in New York and Chinese in San Francisco, who were the communists they were trying to get away from?
So they escaped from one capitalist country to... another?
It seems that they were not escaping capitalism after all
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:25 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,507,117 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I never believed it for a second, until I saw what took place in the nineties.
You are directing this question to wrong people; you should direct it to someone like Mr. Putin.

Ha ha ha. And what did you see? Was Russia invaded by NATO? Has it become an American colony run by CIA yet?

No. Russia is still run by the same people. Putin, like every other Soviet ruler before him (besides Lenin and Stalin) comes from KGB.
There is an uninterrupted lineage of rulers of Russia with KGB roots yet you still want to blame the West for current situation.
I am still waiting for you to call Putin a CIA puppet

I understand it's hard to forget something that you have been hearing over and over again for years.
What did Goebbels say about a lie that if repeated long enough becomes the truth?

Last edited by rebel12; 08-17-2012 at 11:44 AM..
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:52 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,507,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Here is something for you;

//www.city-data.com/forum/europ...l#post25676276

It's not that I never traveled anywhere, it's you who make conclusions on a basis of very limited observations - few people you know/met to be precise. That's the problem.

Yeah, I see this:

Originally Posted by Baldrick
Large parts of Britain (excluding rural areas of which there are many) are able to be lived in without owning a car quite comfortably. It's not a necessity just a convenience. Sadly using public transport all year works out to be just as expensive as car ownership but without the flexibility.

I read:
A) In the UK outside of cities cars are a necessity
B) Public transportation is as expensive as owning a car
c) Car are considered a convenience not a luxury.

That's exactly my point. Cars are not a luxury and in many parts of Europe, namely outside of big cities, they are as much a necessity as they are in the US.

PS. It seems that your idea of carless Europe got shut down pretty quickly in your own topic here:

//www.city-data.com/forum/europ...ownership.html

Last edited by rebel12; 08-17-2012 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:37 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
88,055 posts, read 82,000,057 times
Reputation: 92205
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
I have not learned about them in Soviet Studies but some other class so they also told us upfront that most of these movements were either started or deeply infililtrated by KGB or MVD.
They were watched, certainly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
No. Propaganda machine was still well, only a little more subtle. The best proof that you are still repeating its tune
The machine may have been well, but far fewer were listening. Were you there? Do you have much experience with the USSR or Russia? You're pretty good at repeating propaganda tunes, yourself.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:22 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,507,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
They were watched, certainly.

The machine may have been well, but far fewer were listening. Were you there? Do you have much experience with the USSR or Russia? You're pretty good at repeating propaganda tunes, yourself.
The beauty of Soviet propaganda is that after a while lies became truth repeated by everybody.... West waiting to attack while location of Soviet tank division in Soviet Block countries bordering NATO countries suggested the opposite and the feeling of overall intellectual supremacy as in "we may not have created a personal computer" but our technology is still superior...
You still believe that, don't you?
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:36 PM
 
19,394 posts, read 16,061,067 times
Reputation: 8373
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Ha ha ha. And what did you see? Was Russia invaded by NATO? Has it become an American colony run by CIA yet?

No. Russia is still run by the same people. Putin, like every other Soviet ruler before him (besides Lenin and Stalin) comes from KGB.
There is an uninterrupted lineage of rulers of Russia with KGB roots yet you still want to blame the West for current situation.
I am still waiting for you to call Putin a CIA puppet
Actually you might be surprised, but a lot of Russians put Putin's actions within the lines of "what Washington's OBKOM ( using language of old Soviet times) is ordering him to do."
Once Russian economy became "plugged in" into the world's economy the way "American economic advisers" saw it fit, on conditions of appendix of natural resources to Western countries and "new market" for American goods, Russians consider that Moscow is ruled by Washington through economic means.
And to be honest, they are not that much off in their train of thought.

(And this is just a reminder that in modern times military invasions are not that necessary any longer.)


John Perkins - America's Secret Empire - YouTube
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:39 PM
 
19,394 posts, read 16,061,067 times
Reputation: 8373
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Yeah, I see this:

Originally Posted by Baldrick
Large parts of Britain (excluding rural areas of which there are many) are able to be lived in without owning a car quite comfortably. It's not a necessity just a convenience. Sadly using public transport all year works out to be just as expensive as car ownership but without the flexibility.

I read:
A) In the UK outside of cities cars are a necessity
B) Public transportation is as expensive as owning a car
c) Car are considered a convenience not a luxury.

That's exactly my point. Cars are not a luxury and in many parts of Europe, namely outside of big cities, they are as much a necessity as they are in the US.

PS. It seems that your idea of carless Europe got shut down pretty quickly in your own topic here:

//www.city-data.com/forum/europ...ownership.html
My idea of carless Eurorpe hasn't been "shut down" as you claim, since the NY Times article proved rather the opposite.

Let me repost it for you, just in case you've missed it;

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/sc...pagewanted=all
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:57 PM
 
19,394 posts, read 16,061,067 times
Reputation: 8373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Putin doesn't know how to do things differently, being a product of the old system , and highly invested in it.
Ruth, when I'm saying that someone like Putin has to take responsibility of what happened in the 90ies, is because he was one of those people close to power, that plundered the country at that point. He was an inseparable part of it.
All the changes came really from above, not below, the only choice that general population could do at that point, was to vote for Yeltzin instead of Gorbachev, and Yeltzin turned out to be a puppet in the hands of American economic advisers and the greed of upper echelon of communist/KGB bosses.
So general population had no knowledge or control over this unholy alliance between Americans and their own kniving government, hence it can't be hold responsible for what took place in the nineties. Putin however ( and some other people that are still in his government) can be and should be.
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