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Old 08-26-2012, 12:04 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,506,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post

" So I told Camdessus that he is wasting his time and that Russian administrative circles won't accept this program. We don't need the attempts to Americanize our economy - we need something more agreeable, the market economy more within the lines of Scandinavian, Israeli, or Western European versions.
Those funny Russians: they don't like "Americanizing" of their economy, instead they would like to have their obsolete industry take them straight to reality of Scandinavia: countries that for generations were working for wealth which allows them gratuitous social peogrems or Western Europe built on American Marshall plan. So funny in pretending to understand anything yet so fast to blame evil West for meddling in Russian matters
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,769 posts, read 2,136,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post

This is yet another interesting show on a subject - the Verdict of History that came recently on Russian TV, where they are analyzing the events of those days, comparing the reasons behind the disbandment of Russian parliament in 1993 by Yeltzin with disbandment of Russian Duma in 1907.


**

So if I'd known then what I know now, my outlook on those events might have been different, particularly if to take in consideration that once Yeltzin consolidated power in his hands and changed constitution, it was only a matter of time before he put this power in Putin's hands.



1993 was the year that Russia officially reinstated Tsarist symbols of state.

1993 was also the year that Vladimir Putin had His baptismal cross blessed at our Lord's tomb in the Holy Land.

Vladimir Putin recently revealed He was baptized on the feast day of St Michael [a very symbolic name in Bible and Russian history.]

And, on a personal note... August 1993 was when God sent me a very unusual and prophetic dream with two key symbols,
King Cyrus and King David, in which they collectively as one person gave me the secrets of the universe. In the dream I
was amazed at what Cyrus/David was telling me... but when I woke up I did not remember one secret. However, I believe
on that night in August 1993 God's information was planted in my subconscious and it gradually began to be revealed to
my conscious mind. The first revelation was that God's Anointed King would arise in Russia. Then came the interesting
Russian events in the fall of 1993.

As I have posted on the internet since I first came on line in 2000, Vladimir Putin is God's Anointed Orthodox Autocratic Tsar !!!



.

Last edited by king's highway; 08-26-2012 at 01:02 AM..
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:18 AM
 
14,781 posts, read 38,651,485 times
Reputation: 14502
Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
1993 was the year that Russia officially reinstated Tsarist symbols of state.

1993 was also the year that Vladimir Putin had His baptismal cross blessed at our Lord's tomb in the Holy Land.

Vladimir Putin recently revealed He was baptized on the feast day of St Michael [a very symbolic name in Bible and Russian history.]

And, on a personal note... August 1993 was when God sent me a very unusual and prophetic dream with two key symbols,
King Cyrus and King David, in which they collectively as one person gave me the secrets of the universe. In the dream I
was amazed at what Cyrus/David was telling me... but when I woke up I did not remember one secret. However, I believe
on that night in August 1993 God's information was planted in my subconscious and it gradually began to be revealed to
my conscious mind. The first revelation was that God's Anointed King would arise in Russia. Then came the interesting
Russian events in the fall of 1993.

As I have posted on the internet since I first came on line in 2000, Vladimir Putin is God's Anointed Orthodox Autocratic Tsar !!!
.
The Orthodox Church is quite explicit on the visions you have experienced. First, one must be of the Body of Christ in order to receive a message from God. In this way, they must be a member of the Orthodox Church, have received their sacraments (most importantly baptism) and in be in a State of Grace through regular communion. Failing to meet that test the Orthodox Church would categorize such visions as having been inspired by demons and classify the purveyor of such thoughts as a false prophet.

If one passes the test of being a member of the Orthodox Body of Christ in a State of Grace, they are encouraged to at first ignore such visions and prophecies, unless they feel a strong belief that their experience was divinely ordained. The general test for this is a strong feeling that the prophecy must be shared. At that point the person experiencing the vision is expected to bring such prophetic visions to the attention of their local priest. Upon hearing what was relayed in the vision the priest determines the relevancy and importance of the prophecy and then elevates the information to his superiors who then reviews the material and if deemed worthy; they take it to the Church hierarchy for discussion. If the Church hierarchy sees that the message was ordained from God, they will choose to publish the vision.

As soon as the person who experienced the vision reports such a vision to the Church they are no longer considered to "own" this vision and are forbidden to speak of it. Only the Church itself is allowed to discuss and publish the accounts of the vision. The person who experienced such a vision is expected to remain silent on the matter and not engage in any prosthelytizing of their vision. Doing so is considered to show humility and humbleness before God and His ordained Church.

The Orthodox Church also has explicit instructions on recognizing genuine and false prophets:
MYSTAGOGY: How To Distinguish A False Prophet From A True One

The genuine prophet will be meek, humble, peacable and refrain from all iniquity and desire in the world. They will only speak when compelled by the Spirit of God to do so in the company of righteous men. They will never seek an audience nor will they speak of their gift or vision even when compelled.

The false prophet is essentially the opposite. Not only will their traits be opposite, but they will have an insatiable desire to share their vision and prophecy with people. Indeed they will seek out an audience for their prophecy and readily share it with anyone who will listen.

Based upon the rather explicit teachings of the Orthodox Church on the topic of visions and prophets, I can only find evidence that what you have experienced and your desire to share it with multitudes of the unrighteous would constitue a false prophecy and vision. If God wanted to communicate such a message he would have chosen a righteous member of his Church who would have then brought God's message to the Body of the Church so that they could share in the message.

As this vision is essentially the source for your statements regarding modern Russia and Putin I can only conclude that your source is false making your statements incorrect.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:51 PM
 
19,341 posts, read 16,036,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Those funny Russians: they don't like "Americanizing" of their economy, instead they would like to have their obsolete industry take them straight to reality of Scandinavia: countries that for generations were working for wealth which allows them gratuitous social peogrems or Western Europe built on American Marshall plan. So funny in pretending to understand anything yet so fast to blame evil West for meddling in Russian matters
Sure, so to put natural resources of the nation and heavy industry in the hands of few crooks who enriched themselves overnight leaving millions to scrumble was a much better solution.
Country as rich as Russia could allow herself to have social programs; of course that might have prevented Abramovitch et al from payng 40 euros per glass of water in European clubs, but on another hand this gang of crooks was far more convenient for negotiating what was in the US geopolitical, and more important - financial interests.
I understand your point that Marchall plan was not meant for Russia' from Western point of view ( or rather the point of view that prevailed in the West.) Russia was supposed to go right back to semi-colonial status - precisely where she was before the Bolsheviks managed to change the course of history and to turn her into independent power, capable of withstanding the US (and thus balancing the world's politics by the way.)
I am afraid however that those long-term plans ( of eventual Russian disintegration and further removal of Russia as counter-balancing power to the US) are not going to work out for a number of reasons.
But that aside - to insist that what has been done in the 90ies was the justifiable solution, is simply ignorant so educate yourself a bit; I'll re-post this link here specially for you.

Commanding Heights : Grigory Yavlinsky | on PBS

PS. I don't consider the West "evil," but I suspect that it did dig itself a grave; the world is sure changing fast lately.

Last edited by erasure; 08-28-2012 at 12:59 PM..
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:56 PM
 
19,341 posts, read 16,036,290 times
Reputation: 8361
Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
1993 was the year that Russia officially reinstated Tsarist symbols of state.

1993 was also the year that Vladimir Putin had His baptismal cross blessed at our Lord's tomb in the Holy Land.

Vladimir Putin recently revealed He was baptized on the feast day of St Michael [a very symbolic name in Bible and Russian history.]

And, on a personal note... August 1993 was when God sent me a very unusual and prophetic dream with two key symbols,
King Cyrus and King David, in which they collectively as one person gave me the secrets of the universe. In the dream I
was amazed at what Cyrus/David was telling me... but when I woke up I did not remember one secret. However, I believe
on that night in August 1993 God's information was planted in my subconscious and it gradually began to be revealed to
my conscious mind. The first revelation was that God's Anointed King would arise in Russia. Then came the interesting
Russian events in the fall of 1993.

As I have posted on the internet since I first came on line in 2000, Vladimir Putin is God's Anointed Orthodox Autocratic Tsar !!!



.
Atossa, I don't have much time for you, but if you want to go "biblical" - this is where your anointed idiot is leading the world;

Tarpley: 30 Nations Meet in Tehran for Alternative to Hillary Clinton

He will make any unholy alliances out there in order to retain his power and wealth; as ruthless as he is with his own population, he won't stop at anything internationally as well. So I suspect that because of your anointed vermin, we are heading to the next world conflict - plain and simple.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post


The Orthodox Church is quite explicit on the visions you have experienced. First, one must be of the Body of Christ in order to receive a message from God. In this way, they must be a member of the Orthodox Church, have received their sacraments (most importantly baptism) and in be in a State of Grace through regular communion. Failing to meet that test the Orthodox Church would categorize such visions as having been inspired by demons and classify the purveyor of such thoughts as a false prophet.



In your opinion, did Samuel meet that test when God told him to anoint David to be future King of Israel ?



.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,769 posts, read 2,136,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post


Atossa, I don't have much time for you, but if you want to go "biblical" - this is where your anointed - is leading the world;

Tarpley: 30 Nations Meet in Tehran for Alternative to Hillary Clinton

Interesting... thanks for posting the link.

Rev 16 speaks about "drying up the Euphrates River to prepare the way for the kings of the east."
This is historical imagery which refers to the brilliant ruse God's Anointed, Cyrus, used to conquer Babylon.



.

Last edited by king's highway; 08-28-2012 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:35 AM
 
14,781 posts, read 38,651,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
In your opinion, did Samuel meet that test when God told him to anoint David to be future King of Israel ?
The case of Samuel doesn't matter as that is Old Testament Scripture. Once Jesus arrived and formed His Church and inspired the canon of the New Testament, the rules changed. The Orthodox Faith holds that the "rock" upon which Christ built his church is the Apostolic Church itself (not the person of Saint Peter as in the Catholic faith). Therefore the Church itself and its leaders through apostolic succession is the continuation of Christ's ministry on Earth and the sole authority on spiritual matters. This is why God would only send a message through a person in communion with the true Body of Christ, the Orthodox Church. This is why all true prophecies are vetted by the Church for their authenticity and come from those in communion with the Body of Christ.

As you did not respond to the question of you personal religious affiliation, I can only assume that you are not Orthodox and are therefore not in full communion with the Body of Christ. Therefore the vision you received could not have been ordained by God. If we are to take the vision at face value, the assumption is that the Orthodox Church is the true Church and Putin is the newly appointed defender of that Church. If this was true, then such a vision according to Church doctrine would only have been revealed to someone in full communion with the Body of Christ. Since you are not, then the vision must be false and inspired by demons to trick people.

Let's propose another possibility though. Let's say that God did in fact inspire this vision. Perhaps you are interpreting it wrong? Perhaps you were revealed this vision outside of the Orthodox Church, because that is a false Church and Putin is assuming the role of the anti-Christ by resurrecting the power of the Orthodox Church and becoming an autocrat.

Quite a quandary. Your vision is either inspired by demons and not true in the Orthodox tradition; or it is true, but you have misinterpreted it and you should not be venerating Putin, but warning the world of his dangers.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,571 posts, read 20,584,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
In your opinion, did Samuel meet that test when God told him to anoint David to be future King of Israel ?



.
Assuming the validity of a claim which requires the suspension of natural laws in order to embrace, is a concept outside the practice of history. In that this is the history forum, not the philosophy or religious forum, you should adjust your contributions to reflect that.

Were we to admit such claims and treat them as historical evidence, then all such claims would have to be viewed as equal and the entire discipline of history will be absent common standards. We would have to write the story of classical Greece accepting the influences of the array of gods to which they subscribed destiny, we would have to write the story of the American westward expansion in terms of how it violated the Great Spirit's actual wishes. Our textbooks would have to embrace the claims of Joseph Smith when writing the history of the Latter Day Saints movement..."Despite God having directly instructed Joseph Smith in the new religious order, only a few recognized the divine hand at work and the others participated in their persecution, greatly displeasing God.....etc"

You may still raise the issues you wish to raise, but in this forum it should be done with a religious neutral perspective. If that is something that you are unwilling to do, if you feel that you must insert your eccentric religious beliefs into the discussions and treat extraordinary claims as established facts rather than claims, then perhaps the religion forum is the place for you.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:32 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,506,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Sure, so to put natural resources of the nation and heavy industry in the hands of few crooks who enriched themselves overnight leaving millions to scrumble was a much better solution.
That's reality of live, its Darwinism. Those crooks did not come out of nowhere, there were for years embedded in the system, only not visible. They had necessary connections, they were former party officials, KGB, NVD or army officers, and money to invest.
These crooks, just like Putin and everybody else who is runing Russia today, are a product of Soviet system, members of the soviet priviledged class....

In whose hands would you rather leave the factories then? If you reject socialism there have to be individuals running the show? Someone has to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Country as rich as Russia could allow herself to have social programs; of course that might have prevented Abramovitch et al from payng 40 euros per glass of water in European clubs, but on another hand this gang of crooks was far more convenient for negotiating what was in the US geopolitical, and more important - financial interests.
Why would you described Russia as rich? Of course Russia has a plenty of natural resources but when it comes to its industrial output its GDP and GDP per capita it is way way behind Western European economies or even Japan and Korea. Russia is not rich. It is rich in resources but it is defintely not a rich country by any standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I understand your point that Marchall plan was not meant for Russia' from Western point of view ( or rather the point of view that prevailed in the West.)
My point was that the United States bankrolled rebuilding and economic success of Western Europe. There would not be a Western Europe without Marshall's Plan so don't put down American economy so fast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Russia was supposed to go right back to semi-colonial status - precisely where she was before the Bolsheviks managed to change the course of history and to turn her into independent power, capable of withstanding the US (and thus balancing the world's politics by the way.)
Russia through its actions in Berlin and Eastern Europe where it estabslished puppet governments and falsified elections put itself in a position of an enemy so the US had no interest in funding Soviet economy at all. Why would it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I am afraid however that those long-term plans ( of eventual Russian disintegration and further removal of Russia as counter-balancing power to the US) are not going to work out for a number of reasons.
You still live in the Soviet past. There is no need for big Russia anymore. The Chinese with over a billion people and strong economy are a sufficient counterweight to the US, if we ever needed that balancing act in the first place.
You still believe that the world revolves around Russia but this is a very old news. China is the other superpower today. It surpassed Russia in relevance to global politics and commerce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
PS. I don't consider the West "evil," but I suspect that it did dig itself a grave; the world is sure changing fast lately.
Orthodox Russia has been always very suspicious of Western world.
I think it was Peter the Great who first embraced the West and worked really hard to westernize the country, to make it more advanced and sophisticated. Peter was an emperor but the commoners stayed wary of the west and its intentions.

Last edited by rebel12; 08-29-2012 at 10:48 AM..
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