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Old 08-29-2012, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,769 posts, read 2,133,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post


The case of Samuel doesn't matter as that is Old Testament Scripture.

Once Jesus arrived and formed His Church and inspired the canon of the New Testament, the rules changed.



Jesus Christ is the God of Israel.

Those who think God changed His own rules are in for a rude awakening.


.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,769 posts, read 2,133,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post

Quite a quandary. Your vision is either inspired by demons and not true in the Orthodox tradition; or it is true, but you have misinterpreted it and you should not be venerating Putin, but warning the world of his dangers.

It may be a quandary for you, but not for me.

I know what God has revealed to me.

For the 12 years I have been on the internet, I have proclaimed that Vladimir Putin is God's Anointed Orthodox Autocratic Tsar.

For those 12 years Vladimir Putin has autocratically ruled Russia.



.
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:38 AM
 
19,265 posts, read 15,970,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
Interesting... thanks for posting the link.

Rev 16 speaks about "drying up the Euphrates River to prepare the way for the kings of the east."
This is historical imagery which refers to the brilliant ruse God's Anointed, Cyrus, used to conquer Babylon.



.


Welcome.
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:56 AM
 
19,265 posts, read 15,970,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
That's reality of live, its Darwinism. Those crooks did not come out of nowhere, there were for years embedded in the system, only not visible. They had necessary connections, they were former party officials, KGB, NVD or army officers, and money to invest.
These crooks, just like Putin and everybody else who is runing Russia today, are a product of Soviet system, members of the soviet priviledged class....
These crooks are a product of the same belief that you are adhering to, ( feel free to correct me if I am wrong,) that money is the ultimate power that matters and that it's the power that's going to rule the world forever. Being "product of the soviet system" in this case comes secondary, because plenty of communists ( being "product of Soviet system" as well) stepped aside and did not participate in looting. It was a matter of personal choice - that's what it was all about.

Quote:
In whose hands would you rather leave the factories then? If you reject socialism there have to be individuals running the show? Someone has to do it.
These factories should have been left in the hands of government and remain the property of the nation, until the new class of entrepreneurs would have emerged from a private sector in different areas. The majority of these factories were built on blood and sweat of many; the people who pocketed them had no business of becoming their "rightful owners."
I do not reject socialism; in fact for Russians in order to survive as a nation and to keep on producing great musicians/artists/scientists and the rest it's a quint-essential thing.
A lot of Russians despise the class of "new rich" precisely for a reason that their wealth and "business" came as the result of looting and pocketing the national resources. When they are "running the show" in present time, they are not a "self-made men" who invented anything worthy or came up with new innovative ideas, in the same manner as successful businessmen in the West. That's a wide-spread sentiment in Russia.

Quote:
Why would you described Russia as rich?
Because it has plenty of natural resources and well-educated population ( granted, in post-Soviet times it went down the hill.) If managed properly, by all means this is the nation that could allow itself a lot of perks, social programs including.

Quote:
My point was that the United States bankrolled rebuilding and economic success of Western Europe.
I know what your point was, I simply added an important detail to it that you might not have expected.


Quote:
There would not be a Western Europe without Marshall's Plan so don't put down American economy so fast.
I do not put American economy down; I perfectly understand what's behind it, and why the concept that makes this country thrive ( or rather MADE this country thrive in the past) is deadly when enforced on Russia.
As for Marchall's plan in Europe - in my opinion the US was set to be a major financial winner of the WWII from the get-go, taking in consideration the loan payments from the European allies after the WWI and new loans to Germany back in the thirties.

Quote:
Russia through its actions in Berlin and Eastern Europe where it established puppet governments and falsified elections put itself in a position of an enemy so the US had no interest in funding Soviet economy at all. Why would it?
I don't think that Russia "put itself in a position of an enemy" to the US in post-war times; it happened much earlier, with arrival of Communism in Russia. After all, the US is the bastion of The Capital; the country that thrived on idea of "capital and markets" and taking over the world thanks to this idea.
Russia however is the ultimate country of the left train of thought; not only because of revolution, but because of her historical background. Ironically enough, Russia has been hold down by the most reactionary "right-wing" forces throughout history as well, but it doesn't change the fact that originally it's a communal culture.
This is not to say that the US don't have its own "left train" of thought, but I don't believe that it's ever going to prevail, because that would lead to destruction of the very engine that propelled this country to the world domination. (And without this engine, I don't see how the world as we know it, is going to progress any further.)
So the reasons why the US wouldn't want to see Russia's revival ( Soviet or not) are much deeper than you think, but I'll get back to it later.

Quote:
You still live in the Soviet past. There is no need for big Russia anymore.
Was it ever?
As far as the West was concerned for the most part, there was no need for Russia period, starting from decision of Teutonic Order to attack the new nation that showed up on the face of Earth, including the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth that tried to claim Russian throne in medieval times, then Napoleon's arrival, then Hitler's and the last ( but not least) the latest US attempt to remove that troublesome state once and for all out of the picture.

Quote:
The Chinese with over a billion people and strong economy are a sufficient counterweight to the US, if we ever needed that balancing act in the first place.
Well... here is the question - *did we ever need it* or not, and who are "we"?
If you are talking about the rich and powerful of this world - ( and the US would be a big chunk of it) - then the answer is most likely no, because who wants to be controlled?
If you are talking about the lower class and people of the left train of thought, ( even in the US or in the West in general,) - they'd probably say yes, that balancing act is necessary.
Now if we are talking about the "balancing act" itself, then neither China nor any other former third world country would be able to fulfill this part, for a simple reason that it were European countries that were leading the world in terms of science, industrial revolution, social achievements and culture for the last millennium. No one has heard about great Indian scientists or "great Chinese industrial tiger," until Western technologies were brought to those places. In the same manner these countries will always be followers, dependent on the West in many ways, and although such monster as modern China has been created by the greed of the US corporations, this so-called "counterbalance" is not more than wrestling between two interdependent forces, where one is always hoping to prevail. That's not true "counterbalance", not in a way that Russia was able to counter-balance the West, being yet another European culture in its core. It was a country that was capable of producing its own technology and its own scientists, to command its own geopolitical interests and politics and hence this was the real challenge to the West. This was the true competitor, worthy of removal as far as idea of the total world domination would be concerned.
Let's put it this way - Russia is the illegitimate child of Europe, while America is her rightful daughter.
However as long as the illegitimate child is alive - the fate, the future of that daughter will always be uncertain.

Quote:
You still believe that the world revolves around Russia
It is, just not in a way you think)))

Quote:
China is the other superpower today. It surpassed Russia in relevance to global politics and commerce.
That's what it looks on a surface to *untrained* American eye, lol. You think that you are witnessing the arrival of a new world, while in the reality you are watching the end of the old one.

Quote:
Orthodox Russia has been always very suspicious of Western world.
As I've learned with time - rightfully so, ( although I am not a big fan of Orthodox Russia)))

Quote:
I think it was Peter the Great who first embraced the West and worked really hard to westernize the country, to make it more advanced and sophisticated. Peter was an emperor but the commoners stayed wary of the west and its intentions.
What you need to know about Peter the Great is that he was not just "westernizing" the country by copying the West; he set the trend of analyzing the West and implementing the new version in improved way.( St. Petersburg is not Amsterdam, although Amsterdam was a prototype of it - just an example.) This trend of looking at the West for new ideas and implementing them in Russian way was alive and well among certain part of nobility as much as commoners, while other part of nobility and commoners were weary of the West, ( hence the split between the Westerners and Slavophiles.) The relations between Russia and the West were never univocal.
So you are wrong again.
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:36 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,854 posts, read 81,643,442 times
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The Marshall Plan was offered to Russia. Stalin turned it down.
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:37 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,502,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
These crooks are a product of the same belief that you are adhering to, ( feel free to correct me if I am wrong,) that money is the ultimate power that matters and that it's the power that's going to rule the world forever. Being "product of the soviet system" in this case comes secondary, because plenty of communists ( being "product of Soviet system" as well) stepped aside and did not participate in looting. It was a matter of personal choice - that's what it was all about.
Sure. Like any high level Communists ever turned down dachas, chaikas and other priviledges. All that egalitarian bulls*it was for the dumb masses. Brezhnev simply dropped all pretense and he and has family simply lived like a royal family. Remember? Galina, Yuri and Urbanov?
You are so naive, erasure. What you see in Russia today started decades ago and by the same class of people that is ruling Russia until today. It has been like this for a long, long time...


Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
These factories should have been left in the hands of government and remain the property of the nation, until the new class of entrepreneurs would have emerged from a private sector in different areas.
Do you believe in fairy tales? Where would this class of enterprenuers with enough cash to buy entire factories come from? Hot dog, sorry, periozhki stands? Your priviledged apparatchik, or as we used to call them "red bourgeoisie" simply stayed with power only exchanging political power for economical one. Your beloved Communists still run Russia, erasure.
As you know Putting is an ex-KGB colonel, you don't think one could get to the rank of colonel in KGB unless proved to be absolutely loyal and obedient to the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Because it has plenty of natural resources and well-educated population ( granted, in post-Soviet times it went down the hill.) If managed properly, by all means this is the nation that could allow itself a lot of perks, social programs including.
Russia will be able to afford the social perks when its GDP is proportional to its population, or GDP per capital is comparable with Scandinavian countries you so much admire for social programs. At this point Russian GDP per capital is nowhere near that of Sweden or even Finland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I know what your point was, I simply added an important detail to it that you might not have expected.
You don't make any sense erasure




Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
As for Marchall's plan in Europe - in my opinion the US was set to be a major financial winner of the WWII from the get-go, taking in consideration the loan payments from the European allies after the WWI and new loans to Germany back in the thirties.
But of course. But you don't hear French or Germans complain, do you? LoL

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I don't think that Russia "put itself in a position of an enemy" to the US in post-war times; it happened much earlier, with arrival of Communism in Russia.
Erasure, Soviet Union after the war falsfified elections and established puppet governments across the so called Eastern Europe. That was effectively an act of aggression towards the West.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Russia however is the ultimate country of the left train of thought; not only because of revolution, but because of her historical background.
What thought? I am not aware of any significant left train thought in Russia prior to revolution. US was alteady a democracy when Russia was still an authoritharian monarchy... what are you talking about????



Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Ironically enough, Russia has been hold down by the most reactionary "right-wing" forces throughout history as well, but it doesn't change the fact that originally it's a communal culture.
This is not to say that the US don't have its own "left train" of thought, but I don't believe that it's ever going to prevail, because that would lead to destruction of the very engine that propelled this country to the world domination. (And without this engine, I don't see how the world as we know it, is going to progress any further.)
So the reasons why the US wouldn't want to see Russia's revival ( Soviet or not) are much deeper than you think, but I'll get back to it later.
Youv till think in cold war terms: nobody cares about Russia: China is a much stronger competitor in XXI century than Russia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Was it ever?
As far as the West was concerned for the most part, there was no need for Russia period, starting from decision of Teutonic Order to attack the new nation that showed up on the face of Earth, including the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth that tried to claim Russian throne in medieval times, then Napoleon's arrival, then Hitler's and the last ( but not least) the latest US attempt to remove that troublesome state once and for all out of the picture.
You did the same to Finns, Georgians, Poles, Ukrainians and hundreads of other nations that were part of Russian Empire and later Soviet Union. Conquest is simply the history of mankind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
If you are talking about the lower class and people of the left train of thought, ( even in the US or in the West in general,) - they'd probably say yes, that balancing act is necessary.
And how did Soviet Russia, the biggest oppressor of the working class which in Soviet Union did not even havr a right to strike or independent unions, helped the lower class anywhere else????

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Now if we are talking about the "balancing act" itself, then neither China nor any other former third world country would be able to fulfill this part, for a simple reason that it were European countries that were leading the world in terms of science, industrial revolution, social achievements and culture for the last millennium. No one has heard about great Indian scientists or "great Chinese industrial tiger," until Western technologies were brought to those places. In the same manner these countries will always be followers, dependent on the West in many ways, and although such monster as modern China has been created by the greed of the US corporations, this so-called "counterbalance" is not more than wrestling between two interdependent forces, where one is always hoping to prevail. That's not true "counterbalance", not in a way that Russia was able to counter-balance the West, being yet another European culture in its core.
Wow wow wow. First of all Russia was never considered truly European by the Europeans. It was always foreign. Always outside of European mainstream. Nobody thought of Soviet Union as an European country as it was based on the same Byzantine absolutist concepts as Tsarist Empire before. Europe has strong democratic traditions, Russia has none.

Second both China, Korea and Japan are today far more technologically advanced than Russia. It will take decades just to catch up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
It was a country that was capable of producing its own technology and its own scientists, to command its own geopolitical interests and politics and hence this was the real challenge to the West. This was the true competitor, worthy of removal as far as idea of the total world domination would be concerned.
You are dreaming. Just like North Korea today Soviet Union was a militaristic state with a huge military plus nuclear weapons. Other than this neither Soviet cars, nor computers nor any other advanced products or machinery could ever compete with what was produced in the West and the US. What advanced technology came out of Russia in the past 50 years... Name it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Let's put it this way - Russia is the illegitimate child of Europe, while America is her rightful daughter.
However as long as the illegitimate child is alive - the fate, the future of that daughter will always be uncertain.
No and no. Russia culturally and socially was never a truly European country. RAther than on Eeuropean ideals of equality and democracy it was based on Bysantine absolutism. I don't think any Europens even think about inviting Russia to European Union so Russia strays even further away from the rest of Europe. At this point Russian still need visas to even visit European Union.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
What you need to know about Peter the Great is that he was not just "westernizing" the country by copying the West; he set the trend of analyzing the West and implementing the new version in improved way.
Nah. He copied whatever he could despite protests from both oligarchy and commoners. But that's irrelevant here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
So you are wrong again.
Sure erasure, sure

Last edited by rebel12; 08-30-2012 at 02:13 AM..
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:43 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,854 posts, read 81,643,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Those funny Russians: they don't like "Americanizing" of their economy, instead they would like to have their obsolete industry take them straight to reality of Scandinavia: countries that for generations were working for wealth which allows them gratuitous social peogrems or Western Europe built on American Marshall plan. So funny in pretending to understand anything yet so fast to blame evil West for meddling in Russian matters
The point is that Russia was in a perfect position to study other economic and social systems, and create a new one by plucking the best aspects of each country's system. They could have made a serious study of it. Instead, it chose a warped version of the American system, adopted more or less wholesale. Such a waste of potential! And what good did it do them in the end? It only brought about a collapse that affected the entire international community in 1998. Maybe that would have happened no matter what system was put in place, if it was dependent on foreign loans.
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Old 08-30-2012, 02:34 AM
 
19,265 posts, read 15,970,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Sure. Like any high level Communists ever turned down dachas, chaikas and other priviledges. All that egalitarian bulls*it was for the dumb masses. Brezhnev simply dropped all pretense and he and has family simply lived like a royal family. Remember? Galina, Yuri and Urbanov?
You are so naive, erasure. What you see in Russia today started decades ago and by the same class of people that is ruling Russia until today. It has been like this for a long, long time...
Owning a dacha ( which has been quite common for a lot of of average Russians by the way) is not the same as pocketing the industry.
You are not addressing my point, that not all communists on the high level were willing to participate in the looting of the country, even if they used to have dachas (or Chaikas) in the past.
I can dismiss everything you are saying in the same manner and keep on repeating whatever I find convenient, but this is a place for more intellectual discussions than the level that you are adhering to.
From what I can see you are succeeding in bullying on each and every thread, but as far as showing your deep knowledge of a subject/proving your points - not so much.
I'll address the rest of your post later, since you are obviously lacking knowledge in many areas, although you think of course that you've "figured it all out."
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:09 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,502,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Owning a dacha ( which has been quite common for a lot of of average Russians by the way) is not the same as pocketing the industry.
Brezhnev and his family had much more than dachas, erasure
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You are not addressing my point, that not all communists on the high level were willing to participate in the looting of the country, even if they used to have dachas (or Chaikas) in the past.
Not everybody was invited to participate.
I am not aware however of anybody turning down any offers but rather of fierce fights for scraps lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I can dismiss everything you are saying in the same manner and keep on repeating whatever I find convenient, but this is a place for more intellectual discussions than the level that you are adhering to.
From what I can see you are succeeding in bullying on each and every thread, but as far as showing your deep knowledge of a subject/proving your points - not so much.
I'll address the rest of your post later, since you are obviously lacking knowledge in many areas, although you think of course that you've "figured it all out."
You are so funny erasure with your almost subliminal glorification of the Soviet system
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:14 PM
 
14,781 posts, read 38,589,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
Jesus Christ is the God of Israel.

Those who think God changed His own rules are in for a rude awakening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
It may be a quandary for you, but not for me.

I know what God has revealed to me.

For the 12 years I have been on the internet, I have proclaimed that Vladimir Putin is God's Anointed Orthodox Autocratic Tsar.

For those 12 years Vladimir Putin has autocratically ruled Russia.
Beware the false prophets saith the Lord...

Quote:
Jer 23:33-36 (NIV) "When these people, or a prophet or a priest, ask you, 'What is the oracle of the Lord?' say to them, 'What oracle?..' You must not mention 'the oracle of the Lord' again, because every man's own word becomes his oracle and so you distort the words of the living God, the Lord Almighty, our God."

Jer 14:14 (NIV) "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries, and the delusion of their own minds."

Jer 23:30-32 (NIV) "Therefore," declares the Lord, "I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. Yes,.. I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The Lord declares.' Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,.. They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least," declares the Lord.

2 Cor 11:13-15 (Phi) "God's messengers?" They are counterfeits of the real thing, dishonest practitioners masquerading as the messengers of Christ. Nor do their tactics surprise me when I consider how Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is only to be expected that his agents shall have the appearance of ministers of righteousness--but they will get what they deserve in the end.

1 Tim 4:1-2 (Phi) God's spirit specificaly tells us that in later days there will be men who abandon the true faith and allow themselves to be spiritually seduced by teachings of demons, teachings given by men who are lying hypocrites, whose consciences are as dead as seared flesh.

Jer 23:25-29 (NIV) "I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, 'I had a dream! I had a dream!' How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?.. Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?" declares the Lord. "Is not my word like fire," declares the Lord, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?"

1 Jn 2:20-26 (Phi) God has given you all a certain amount of spiritual insight, and indeed I have not written this warning as if I were writing to men who don't know what error is. I write because your eyes are clear enough to discern a lie when you come across it... For yourselves keep faithful to what you heard at the beginning. I had to write to you about these men who try to lead you astray.

Mat 24:25 (Phi) "False christs and false prophets are going to appear and produce great signs and wonders to mislead, if it were possible, even God's own people. Listen, I am warning you."
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