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Old 09-07-2012, 10:59 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,799,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
My Dad was there in the early stages..He actually served in the Kremlin as an honor guard for Stalin..Every guard he had harbored the ambition of killing the s o b . But of course if someone close to him did they would forfeit their life. What my father said was that the bureaucracy became so top heavy that you had too many doing nothing but paper work with a small percentage doing the actual real work.

As for the intelligent class..Those that submitted and were compliant to the Soviets were put in important positions. Those that they suspected were faking it and not truly compliant were put on trial and shot...As for my grandfather..It was assumed that they killed him right after my father who was 14 fled...Decades later we found out they harassed him for six solid years attempting to get a conviction...so they shot him and THEN put him on trial and found him guilty.

The five year plans did not work out for one simple reason...as far as food production..If a worker managed to reach a quota as far as plowing a field..He was given a small bonus and an incentive. What my father told me was...Instead of putting the plow to a depth of a foot...workers would cheat and only sink the plow in a few inches...in order to rush through the job and get more done and receive the bonus. So inevitably there was continue crop failure and low yield.

When my dad's friends - some of who were from wealthy old Russian families would gather at our house...There was one word that they used to show loathing and contempt for the Soviet system...that nasty insult was the word BUREAUCRAT.


In my view it was huge government that cause the collapse of the Soviet Union...to create real wealth and sustainability...people had to do real work- Most just faked it...much like what is going on with western capitalist systems of today..no one is really generating real wealth- Everyone is faking it- with the digital age...it is getting worse.
Oleg, soviet bureaucracy was monumental. Because Soviet economic system rather than on free market was based on centralized planning it required an incredible amount of reporting. Reporting that in many cases was simply made up and not verified. Innacurate reporting lead to fantasy planning and the cycle repeated. As to ineffeciencies of that system, well they are legendary.
We can all b*tch and moan about inequalities of free market economy but there is no system that rewards efficiency more or is more efficient in utilizing natural resources should be our main objective given scarcity of resources in our posession.
Socialism /communism was a criminal and false social concept but it's real fallacy and my opinion a main reason to fail, was that it was unsustainable as economic model. There is no way to advance and grow economically in such economic environment.
The further from the revolution the more inefficient Soviet economy became thus the fall of Soviet empire started in 1918...

Last edited by rebel12; 09-07-2012 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:01 PM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,068,785 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Can you be a serf or a slave and have any political power? LOL
You tell me - because Americans today are nothing more than slaves - or at least indentured servants.

Russia for almost all of its history had extreme levels of self-governance. And princes usually didn't make political decisions in villages.

Quote:
Oleg, soviet bureaucracy was monumental. Because Soviet economic system rather than on free market was based on centralized planning it required an incredible amount of reporting.
I'm really sorry to dissapoint you, but in 1980's SU had the same number of bureaucrats as America today.

Quote:
We can all b*tch and moan about inequalities of free market economy but there is no system that rewards efficiency more
The free market and efficiency are oxymorons. Hopefully, no country has it.

Quote:
Socialism /communism was a criminal and false social concept but it's real fallacy and my opinion a main reason to fail, was that it was unsustainable as economic model.
Much of EU is clearly socialist. And if we use Friedman's definition, than America is more socialist than was (state capitalist) USSR.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:19 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,799,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
You tell me - because Americans today are nothing more than slaves - or at least indentured servants.

Russia for almost all of its history had extreme levels of self-governance. And princes usually didn't make political decisions in villages.


I'm really sorry to dissapoint you, but in 1980's SU had the same number of bureaucrats as America today.


The free market and efficiency are oxymorons. Hopefully, no country has it.


Much of EU is clearly socialist. And if we use Friedman's definition, than America is more socialist than was (state capitalist) USSR.
Cmon Ivan. America is bad, democracy evil. What are you still doing here in an American forum? Go home.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:42 PM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,068,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Cmon Ivan. America is bad, democracy evil. What are you still doing here in an American forum? Go home.
America (domestically) is absolutely not bad. Democracy (direct democracy) is great... What are YOU doing here, if you can't even comprehend something written in reasonably well English?
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:15 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,799,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
America (domestically) is absolutely not bad. Democracy (direct democracy) is great... What are YOU doing here, if you can't even comprehend something written in reasonably well English?
You still here?
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:26 PM
 
272 posts, read 907,532 times
Reputation: 191
Russiaonline is abusing the most prized liquid Russians have.
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:36 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,799,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizarro View Post
Russiaonline is abusing the most prized liquid Russians have.
Definetely.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:40 AM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,068,785 times
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How pathetic to succumb to personal offenses, when you lack arguments...
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Kharkiv, Ukraine
750 posts, read 908,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
I'm really sorry to dissapoint you, but in 1980's SU had the same number of bureaucrats as America today.
Soviet joke of that times:

Quote:
On demonstration in honor of October revolution parade of armies of the Moscow garrison took place. After passing by solemn march the military equipment went: soldiers, tanks, self-propelled artilery, tactical rockets, strategic rockets. Parade of military equipment is closed by three young men in black strict breed suits with cases in hands. Brezhnev asks Andropov:
- These are your people?
- No!
Asks Shchelokov:
- These are your children changed clothes?
- No!
- So someone these people?
Kosygin bends to Brezhnev and speaks:
- These are my children from the State Planning Committee! By sight modest, but possess terrible destructive force...
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:02 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,799,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadym View Post
Soviet joke of that times:

Good one Wadym, any more? I love jokes from the Soviet era...
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