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I know what you are saying but I have seen most European cities and know that all cities around the world have commercial and cultural centers and residential areas."
Definitely not a case in Soviet cities.
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For example London has the City which has 300 thousand people commuting to it every day. Are you saying they all could be walking because London is generally walkable? Are you saying they should all live in the City?
That's nosense. Nobody lives where they work anymore, anywhere in the world.
Probably the world is getting Americanized by now, but back in the 80ies, when I was in Vienna or Frankfurt, that was not a case. In fact Vienna was the first Western European city I stayed in and I didn't see much difference with Moscow in that respect. The difference with American cities however was striking.
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As far as existence of excellent transportation systems in all Russian cities is concerned, well, now you entered science-fiction
Sorry I lived there, so I am entitled to my opinion.
Did you live there yourself?
Really? Are you saying there is no financial district? There is no theater district? Big offices and theaters are spread evenly all across the city? There is no big city on earth built on this planning philosophy.
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Originally Posted by erasure
Probably the world is getting Americanized by now, but back in the 80ies, when I was in Vienna or Frankfurt, that was not a case. In fact Vienna was the first Western European city I stayed in and I didn't see much difference with Moscow in that respect. The difference with American cities however was striking.
I have no idea what you are talking about... All big cities have districts: financial, cultural, entertainment. London's City or Soho are great examples. Same for Paris and any other big city I have ever seen.
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Originally Posted by erasure
Sorry I lived there, so I am entitled to my opinion.
Did you live there yourself?
You lived there I just visited but I could compare Moscow to other big cities like New York, Paris or London.
Calling anything in Moscow "excellent" is a big stretch and Moscow's transportation system is very far from it.
Then a populist president (Gorbachev) used his near-dictatorship power to destroy the government and the Union. A farmer turned a populist president...
The intention behind the destruction of USSR was to kick poor republics out of rich Russia. Economists cried, but couldn't do anything.
Gorbachev never intended to destroy the USSR. He wanted to improve it. He was devoted to the Party. Conspiracy theories don't apply here.
Really? Are you saying there is no financial district? There is no theater district? Big offices and theaters are spread evenly all across the city?
In Moscow, during Soviet times - no. May be they were not spread "evenly" since many of them were built in the old part of the city. You could find Soviet ministries ( and other offices) at different addresses, although the majority of them were concentrated in the old part of Moscow, or what's called the center of Moscow. However pay attention - center of Moscow is not American equivalent of downtown.
Still plenty of residential buildings nearby, courtyards and boulevards, grocery stores and kindergartens.
There was no "financial district" ( although a lot of government offices were located in the center of Moscow, ) and no "theater district." Bolshoy and Maly threaters were built in proximity to each other already in pre-revolutionary times, but the rest of Moscow theaters were at different locations.
I can think only of couple of "islands" without residential buildings around, and they'd be relaively close to the Red square.
So no, no "Soho" there - you are projecting things.
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You lived there I just visited but I could compare Moscow to other big cities like New York, Paris or London.
Calling anything in Moscow "excellent" is a big stretch and Moscow's transportation system is very far from it.
Comparing to American system of public transportation, it was definitely excellent, I don't know what complaints you might have now.
The Soviet/Russian transportation system (in the cities) is the best I've ever seen anywhere, in terms of frequency of service and number of routes. Not to mention the fabulous metro systems. It had to be the best. There were very few private cars. Nearly everyone got around by public transport. The system had to move millions, and still does.
Really? Are you saying there is no financial district? There is no theater district? Big offices and theaters are spread evenly all across the city? There is no big city on earth built on this planning philosophy.
This strikes you as odd because you're used to Western city planning. The USSR was in its own world, it was a different mentality.
One thing I appreciate about city design in Russia is that every neighborhood has grocery and other food stores within walking distance. Very practical. I wish US cities were designed that way. A few towns are, like Berkeley, CA, but it seems rare.
The Soviet/Russian transportation system (in the cities) is the best I've ever seen anywhere, in terms of frequency of service and number of routes. Not to mention the fabulous metro systems. It had to be the best. There were very few private cars. Nearly everyone got around by public transport. The system had to move millions, and still does.
Yes, it moved millions in street cars with people squeezed into smelly streetcars and buses with no air conditioning during hot Russian summers. The only thing about it that was good was the price: it was really cheap.
If this is your idea of excellent transportation system then I can't really help you
- center of Moscow is not American equivalent of downtown.
Still plenty of residential buildings nearby, courtyards and boulevards, grocery stores and kindergartens.
This is what makes a vibrant, healthy "downtown". In the US, when city centers were depopulated and people moved to the suburbs, downtown areas became prone to crime. Since then, a few cities have succeeded in revitalizing their downtown, and attracting residents back. Seattle is an example of this.
I repeat again - owning a car in Soviet Union was a luxury, where in the US it's a neccesity.
And this is one failure of the system in the US, LOL!!
You're missing a bit of perspective, rebel12. In the 70's , car ownership was more attainable than before, and certainly more so than in the 90's, with the exception of oligarchs and the like. "More attainable" is a very relative term, as I mentioned before. The point was, that during the economic crises of the 90's, people looked back upon the 70's nostalgically, as "the good old days". Again, VERY RELATIVE term in Russia. To make this even clearer for you: comparing the 70's in Russia with, say, the 30's and 40's, well, forget about it. People could only dream of cars back then. This is the kind of "relativity" we're talking about.
btw, Russian cars were exported to Canada in the 70's. Because of the favorable price, some Americans would drive across the border to buy them. You probably won't believe that, either, so ... what's the point in posting here?
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 08-14-2012 at 03:19 PM..
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