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Whatever I type, I am not operating by cliches, unlike some of us.
You were talking about evils of consumerism in context of single use needles in hospitals. Do you even realize how absurd it was???
Maybe you should start "operating by cliches" instead of "inventing" your own version of reality?
You were talking about evils of consumerism in context of single use needles in hospitals. Do you even realize how absurd it was???
Maybe you should start "operating by cliches" instead of "inventing" your own version of reality?
I am talking about "evils of consumerism" not only in context of single use needles - it's obvious that it would have been nice for Soviet citizens to have all the perks that Westerners had, but then again it would have been even nicer for them to not to have the WWII on their territory - the kind the US have never experienced.
So at the end of the 1950ies, when the single-use needles were developed in the US, ( along with other niceties) the Soviets were still recovering from the blow that the WWII delivered to them, and even before that it was not a rich country to begin with, that was lagging behind Europe already in pre-revolutionary times.
What you don't seem to understand, is that there is more to life than comfort of amenities and twenty brands of chewing-gum. The world doesn't end if your car is uglier than Ferrari and you have to take public transportation instead of driving your own car. People still took pride in their jobs, their close relations with family-neighbors meant the world to them, the new books were constantly read and discussed in communal kitchens as crummy as they were, and new ideas were born and shared with friends when they'd drop by according to informality of the culture. This is what's best in Russian culture, that's what kept it going in spite of the modest possessions, and that's why the absence of Western perks didn't devastate them to no end. Now take it all away from you for example - you'd probably not even know how to live your life any longer; take this crutch away from the modern American society and what you'll have as the result of it?
As for the single-use needles - how did people survive ( in the West including) before having them?
That's right, by disinfecting and reusing them in hospitals, and that's what Russians kept on doing as many years before that.
Besides, keep in mind that in the US those single-use needles probably came handy by the times of "drugs-sex-and rock-n-roll," and particularly when AIDS was already catching up, where in the Soviet Union the intravenous use of drugs was not a concern. I guess god takes care of everyone in time, on his own terms, and in different manner.
Now you can proceed operating by your cliches of course, but can you please stick to the subject of Hitler-Stalin debate, that we wouldn't continue to hijack this thread?
I am talking about "evils of consumerism" not only in context of single use needles - it's obvious that it would have been nice for Soviet citizens to have all the perks that Westerners had, but then again it would have been even nicer for them to not to have the WWII on their territory - the kind the US have never experienced.
So at the end of the 1950ies, when the single-use needles were developed in the US, ( along with other niceties) the Soviets were still recovering from the blow that the WWII delivered to them, and even before that it was not a rich country to begin with, that was lagging behind Europe already in pre-revolutionary times.
What you don't seem to understand, is that there is more to life than comfort of amenities and twenty brands of chewing-gum. The world doesn't end if your car is uglier than Ferrari and you have to take public transportation instead of driving your own car. People still took pride in their jobs, their close relations with family-neighbors meant the world to them, the new books were constantly read and discussed in communal kitchens as crummy as they were, and new ideas were born and shared with friends when they'd drop by according to informality of the culture. This is what's best in Russian culture, that's what kept it going in spite of the modest possessions, and that's why the absence of Western perks didn't devastate them to no end. Now take it all away from you for example - you'd probably not even know how to live your life any longer; take this crutch away from the modern American society and what you'll have as the result of it?
As for the single-use needles - how did people survive ( in the West including) before having them?
That's right, by disinfecting and reusing them in hospitals, and that's what Russians kept on doing as many years before that.
Besides, keep in mind that in the US those single-use needles probably came handy by the times of "drugs-sex-and rock-n-roll," and particularly when AIDS was already catching up, where in the Soviet Union the intravenous use of drugs was not a concern. I guess god takes care of everyone in time, on his own terms, and in different manner.
Now you can proceed operating by your cliches of course, but can you please stick to the subject of Hitler-Stalin debate, that we wouldn't continue to hijack this thread?
Russians started WWII together with Germans by attacking Poland. Remember?
Funny that you think prostitution or drug use did not exist in Soviet Union
... I chalk it up as another win for Communist.propaganda. Pravda didn't write about it so the problem did not exist, right?
Keep on romanticizing the Communist era, good think is that even thebyoung Russians would laugh at you for doing that. Especially since you expose the evils of consumerism like single use needles while living in America and taking advantage of the best that consumerism can offer. Try telling people living in Russia that their quest for good cars, TVs or home appliances is pointless and they will gladly offer to switch places with you
Russians started WWII together with Germans by attacking Poland. Remember?
Funny that you think prostitution or drug use did not exist in Soviet Union
... I chalk it up as another win for Communist.propaganda. Pravda didn't write about it so the problem did not exist, right?
Keep on romanticizing the Communist era, good think is that even thebyoung Russians would laugh at you for doing that. Especially since you expose the evils of consumerism like single use needles while living in America and taking advantage of the best that consumerism can offer. Try telling people living in Russia that their quest for good cars, TVs or home appliances is pointless and they will gladly offer to switch places with you
Easy to be a commie living in America, isn't it?
Better check under your bed before you go to sleep.
Be careful, there might be communists there.
Better check under your bed before you go to sleep.
Be careful, there might be communists there.
Yes the Communists who slaughtered millions and dreamt about conquering the world through world revolution were just a fairy tale.
Lenin always alive, isn't he?
Yes the Communists who slaughtered millions and dreamt about conquering the world through world revolution were just a fairy tale.
Lenin always alive, isn't he?
This is what the commie paid journalist do in America: never openly glorified communism or Soviet union instead focusing on "evils" of American society...
Clever. Why are you here in America erasure?
I'm completely lost as to the point of the bickering between the two of you. Shame, because it has managed to derail an otherwise good thread on an interesting topic.
Rebel thinks that everything in the Soviet Union sucked compared to the west and he is pretty much right in terms of consumer products, liberties, etc. Communism was/is a broken ideology, especially as applied to its application in the Soviet Union.
Erasure counters by saying that relative to Russias past and the nations lack of development, while things may not have been as plentiful or wonderful as they were in the west, the ethos of the Russian people survived and not everything was all that horrible for people because they found enjoyment in life beyond the number of ice cream flavors one has access to.
There is also a bit of nostalgia involved in erasure's post and I don't think it is fair to trounce on someones personal observations and memories to prove a macro point. Especially when the two of you are basically arguing different points and at this moment are doing so in two different threads. Therefore...
Rebel, can you accept that from the perspective of the average Russian, Soviet times were not all horrible?
Erasure, can you accept that despite whatever warm and fuzzy feelings you may have about Soviet ice cream and what it means to you, that overall the communist system in the Soviet Union was a failure especially relative to the west?
I'm completely lost as to the point of the bickering between the two of you. Shame, because it has managed to derail an otherwise good thread on an interesting topic.
Rebel thinks that everything in the Soviet Union sucked compared to the west and he is pretty much right in terms of consumer products, liberties, etc. Communism was/is a broken ideology, especially as applied to its application in the Soviet Union.
Erasure counters by saying that relative to Russias past and the nations lack of development, while things may not have been as plentiful or wonderful as they were in the west, the ethos of the Russian people survived and not everything was all that horrible for people because they found enjoyment in life beyond the number of ice cream flavors one has access to.
There is also a bit of nostalgia involved in erasure's post and I don't think it is fair to trounce on someones personal observations and memories to prove a macro point. Especially when the two of you are basically arguing different points and at this moment are doing so in two different threads. Therefore...
Rebel, can you accept that from the perspective of the average Russian, Soviet times were not all horrible?
Erasure, can you accept that despite whatever warm and fuzzy feelings you may have about Soviet ice cream and what it means to you, that overall the communist system in the Soviet Union was a failure especially relative to the west?
NJGOAT,
Its just a discussion, I can accept anything. But I have been to Soviet Union, knew many Russians there and those who escaped to the West to know that to average Russian reality was not that peachy at all. As a matter of fact Russians, who could not legally travel outside the soviet block, were taking every opportunity to escape. Despite erasure's attempt to romanticize the regime she knows that it was a real nightmare turn reality, with milions people killed, being repressed and left without any hope.
You would have seen it to believe it...
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