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Something that turns a lot of people off is the gun fights. Not so much the violence but its get old and tired. It hard to tell a story with out a gun fight. A Cowboy historian once said those guns were not very accurate and it was more common for cowboys to die trying to cross a river on a horse than in a gun fight.
I'm sure it was more common to drown in a river or stream than to die in a gunfight but my great great grandfather died in one with the Texas Rangers in 1867. It was not commonplace to die in a gun battle in the old west but it certainly wasn't uncommon either.
The reality is that Hollywood glorified the "gun fights" into something that never was, and a lot of writers have made hay out of this aspect ...
There's many more real stories of the West that tell of the survival and hardships, but they don't have the glamour and excitement that gunplay brings into a story line for the masses.
Very true. People were armed, but not so they could get into a shoot out, but largely because they lived where dangerous animals lived, and a portion of their diet came from hunting game. They were much more likely to carry a rifle than a handgun. There was a 'gun culture' but it was very small. Outlaws and those (often former outlaws themselves who'd 'reformed') who persued them were more likely to use them for something else, but this was a small sliver of the population. But if your a dimenovel writer, or a newspaper man who wants the paper back east to print his stuff over someone else's, what's more exciting and interesting? A glamorized version of the thieves and raiders (unglamorized wouldn't much sell) or the life of the average settler doing pretty much what those on the farm did back east?
That's where the perception of a lot of guns and gunfights came from, not reality.
One thing which we usually don't get is how empty the west was. People gathered in towns, usually around their own, or in farm areas a town would spring up around the supply store or church, but the population density was so small it would be hard to find a comparison today. In an environment like that, where you might travel for days without seeing another human being it encouraged grouping, but it also discouraged the sort of violence which is the grist of your average western. Most of that was oportunistic, and in the wide open land, the opportunity for two or more with agendas to meet and the reason be good enough to act wasn't common.
If your speaking of the mining towns, there were plentiful murders and shootings and just accidents as it was the place you sold whatever you found, and usually went off the saloon and drink it down. Those who didn't live there came to mining towns to party, and get drunk and take some relief over a hard hard life, and the expected happened. Much of the legendary confrontations happened in mining towns.
And those who were there to wander stayed at a town as long as they had a reason to, and then moved on to the next new lively spot, which is why so many were abandoned. Sometimes those who were there to settle and stay put took them over if farming had started in the area. But as the settling of the west was a constant migration, so was the settlement of the west after it had reached its last coast.
I'm sure it was more common to drown in a river or stream than to die in a gunfight but my great great grandfather died in one with the Texas Rangers in 1867. It was not commonplace to die in a gun battle in the old west but it certainly wasn't uncommon either.
The most likely way to die was from an accident, medical care being what it was, or by drowning. People did not learn to swim back then. You read accounts of children on wagon trains dissapeareing, wandering off and after a quick unsuccessful search them moving on without them, but kids could dissapear into the landscape even in settled areas and not be found. If you made it to twelve you might live to be old, but the majority of deaths were young children or slightly older ones, both from sickness and accidental causes.
When you look at the long list of kids on a genological chart and the only date is birth, it usually means they died the same year. Of if there's no evidence of them ever marrying, they may have died as children. That's one reason why there were such large families, since it was a given that a percentage would not make it to grow up.
Just imagine if we had no treatments for infections, childbirth was usually at home with no help in cases of complications, and there was only a rudimentary understanding of the the pathology of disease, how many fewer of us there would be.
The most likely way to die was from an accident, medical care being what it was, or by drowning. People did not learn to swim back then. You read accounts of children on wagon trains disappearing, wandering off and after a quick unsuccessful search them moving on without them, but kids could disappear into the landscape even in settled areas and not be found. If you made it to twelve you might live to be old, but the majority of deaths were young children or slightly older ones, both from sickness and accidental causes.
When you look at the long list of kids on a genealogical chart and the only date is birth, it usually means they died the same year. Of if there's no evidence of them ever marrying, they may have died as children. That's one reason why there were such large families, since it was a given that a percentage would not make it to grow up.
Just imagine if we had no treatments for infections, childbirth was usually at home with no help in cases of complications, and there was only a rudimentary understanding of the the pathology of disease, how many fewer of us there would be.
I had a conversation with an elderly lady who said in her grandparents generation funerals were a popular place for young people to meet. Death was so common among teen age kids. Winters out west had to be brutal. This lady told me by spring time you had been to a half a dozen funerals of young people.
I had a conversation with an elderly lady who said in her grandparents generation funerals were a popular place for young people to meet. Death was so common among teen age kids. Winters out west had to be brutal. This lady told me by spring time you had been to a half a dozen funerals of young people.
The whole attitude towards death was different too. They viewed it as part of life. I don't think we do anymore. It's some kind of aberation where nobody knows what to say.
Just imagine a home on the plains in a winter storm, not necessarily solidly sealed, with nothing but a fire to warm you. People got trapped insde for days at a time and would tie ropes between buildings to find them and not be lost in the white out, since people could get lost in the storm and be a short ways away and not found until it was long over. The grit of people who chose to stay in places like this and accepted the bad with the good is admirable.
Women frequently married very young as well. I have at least 3 14 year old brides in what I've found. I would imagine in their world with the social sensitivities, meeting others of their age was no so easy especially in a farming comunity. But funerals were also arriairs of extended family, and while others sat over the lunch to remember uncle joe, I could see younger people using it as a welcome opportunity to meet and socialize with others of their age.
The whole attitude towards death was different too. They viewed it as part of life. I don't think we do anymore. It's some kind of aberation where nobody knows what to say.
Just imagine a home on the plains in a winter storm, not necessarily solidly sealed, with nothing but a fire to warm you. People got trapped insde for days at a time and would tie ropes between buildings to find them and not be lost in the white out, since people could get lost in the storm and be a short ways away and not found until it was long over. The grit of people who chose to stay in places like this and accepted the bad with the good is admirable.
Women frequently married very young as well. I have at least 3 14 year old brides in what I've found. I would imagine in their world with the social sensitivities, meeting others of their age was no so easy especially in a farming comunity. But funerals were also arriairs of extended family, and while others sat over the lunch to remember uncle joe, I could see younger people using it as a welcome opportunity to meet and socialize with others of their age.
I have extensive genealogical records of my relatives living in the West and I've not noticed an unusual number of early deaths. In most cases they lived a normal lifespan. I've read letters and personal histories that sounded like they were pretty happy. However, they were mostly trappers, traders, farmers and ranchers rather than miners. They tended to move from place to place in large family groups so had lots of support. I do have one relative who was killed in a gunfight outside a saloon, another in a bar fight and a couple by Indians in the very early days on the frontier.
I think I'd rather have lived as they did rather than in some city back East during that time. I zillowed the house my great great grandfather built in Durango, CO in 1890 and discovered it's the same size and worth about the same as my house. I'm guessing they were doing okay.
When you look at the long list of kids on a genological chart and the only date is birth, it usually means they died the same year. Of if there's no evidence of them ever marrying, they may have died as children. That's one reason why there were such large families, since it was a given that a percentage would not make it to grow up.
Based on my own genealogical records (+-13,000 individual records), I would have to say the modern world is about as dangerous to my family as was the past from car accidents, still births, crime, wars. I've almost been killed twice in the past three years alone.
I can't imagine anyone seeing death as an aberration. I grew up going to funerals of aunts, uncles, grandparents, parents and close friends so death to me is nothing to be feared, It is simply the end of a very short and painful existence called life.
One of the subjects about the old west I find facinating deals with the Orphans. I know there are books about the Orphan trains and I have also seen an exhibit on the trains. I think I either heard or saw a book about the Poney Express. That said they prefered orphans because it was so dangerous.
I've been watching this forum for quite a long time and have yet to see many if any threads dealing with the history of the Amercian West. Is it not of interest to Americans anymore? A lot of movies were made about it in the 40s and 50s but since then the subject seems to have faded out of consciousness.
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Originally Posted by CAVA1990;25712691[B
]Actually the period that seems to hae gotten little attention was the period Lewis and Clark up to the civil war.[/b] The only major movie I can think of off-hand that covers it was Jeremiah Johnson and perhaps one about the Mexican American war that I'm not able to recall. There were also a few about the Alamo. Most westerns focus on the post-civil war period of cattle drives and Indian wars. There's a whole era before it that's somewhat flown under the radar. I'm kind of surprised nobody's made something on figures such as Lewis and Clark, John C. Fremont, or Kit Carson. The Taos uprising would also make for a pretty good plot.
I think that the Old West is appealing because it is a story of rugged individuals or maybe small groups of pioneers trying to survive in a wild environment, fighting wild animals, outlaws and Native Americans, both good and bad, all while exploring a new frontier. It is not suprising that Hollywood turned out so many westerns over the years.
But here on City-Data, history buffs are more likely to want to talk about bigger things than who won at the OK Corral or who shot Billy the Kid. You have for instance WW2, the Civil War and a hundred other things. Its not that the American West is not interesting, its that there is so much else its competing with.
I do agree with your second point and I am also puzzled why there is so little material about before the Civil War. In fact when you look at the totality of Hollywood films, thousands and thousands of films, there is relatively very little about the Civil War, the Revolution and anything to do with the frontier before the war .
But its not just the West that gets neglected. When is the last time you saw a movie or heard a story about the pioneers in Wisconsin, Georgia or North Carolina? Remember ALL the states were on the frontier at one point or another. And its the 200 anniversay of the War of 1812. Any movies about that war? Maybe the Charleton Heston movie about Andrew Jackson but after that pretty much nothing.
In fact when you look at the totality of Hollywood films, thousands and thousands of films, there is relatively very little about the Civil War, the Revolution and anything to do with the frontier before the war .
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America loves a movie where the underdog prevails. The American Civil War is problematic in that regard because the Southerners were the romantic underdogs. Consequently, a Civil War film catering to that popular taste would need to center on the Confederate side.
And that is a problem because there will always be x percentage of the audience which will refuse to embrace such sympathies. Regardless of any other perceived virtues, the Confederate cause is inseperable from the championing of slavery in a great many people's minds.
The second aspect, that the underdog prevails, is also rendered difficult to portray because in reality the South did not prevail. Even the portrayal of a momentary triumph for the rebels, is diluted by the audience's knowledge that this had all been in vain.
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