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Old 09-05-2012, 03:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
There was a huge movement in Germany in the early decades of the 20th century to revive aspects of pre-Christian Germanic spirituality. Hitler, apparently, thought those people were fools, but he was willing to refashion any tool in his Nationalist tool-box to his own ends.

Despite the wealth of pre-Christian symbols he twisted, Hitler's philosophy was instructed more by quasi Roman imperial values and a psuedo-scientific racial theory, not heathen Germanic values. The foundational myths of the Germanic lore are all about unrelated tribes and even species (giants and proto-humans) intermarrying and mating. Not exactly the fount for a racial-isolationist philosophy.

I don't think that Hitler has a religious bone in his body, Christian, Islamic, Pagan, or otherwise.
I agree 100%. However some other prominent Nazis, like Himmler, were really into this. There was this SS trip to India in search of Aryan race artifacrs and some other efforts to find scientific evidence to support Nazi racial theories.
It seems that some Nazis, especially those ilnvolved with SS were looking for alternative spriruality to replace Christianity which from Nazi pesepctive was first of all flaky and then full of Jewish references especially in Old Testament.

Last edited by rebel12; 09-05-2012 at 04:15 PM..
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Simple question: is antisemitism a product of Christianity or not?
I've already gave you an answer and I am not going to repeat it. Learn to read and comprehend other people's opinions please, instead of rolling like a tank.
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
There was a huge movement in Germany in the early decades of the 20th century to revive aspects of pre-Christian Germanic spirituality. Hitler, apparently, thought those people were fools, but he was willing to refashion any tool in his Nationalist tool-box to his own ends.

Despite the wealth of pre-Christian symbols he twisted, Hitler's philosophy was instructed more by quasi Roman imperial values and a psuedo-scientific racial theory, not heathen Germanic values. The foundational myths of the Germanic lore are all about unrelated tribes and even species (giants and proto-humans) intermarrying and mating. Not exactly the fount for a racial-isolationist philosophy.

I don't think that Hitler has a religious bone in his body, Christian, Islamic, Pagan, or otherwise.
Oh he was religious all right, but he was out there to prove God wrong and to fix his mistakes and miscalculations.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:28 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
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Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Been interested in a Military Channel show called Nazi Collaborators. They've shown several countries that willingly, without any threats of violence from Nazi troops, committed acts of rape, torture, and mass murder of their own Jewish neighbors. Some were so vicious and violent that theNazis felt they had to take control of them befor they got out of hand. Troops from these countries willingly went into other countries to exterminate Jews. Lithuania was one of these countries.

Does any one have a list of nations that willingly worked with Nazis to exterminate Jews?
There's some great discussion in this thread, but let's stick to addressing the OP ^ ^ ^ , please. Thanks!
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PJSinger View Post
There's some great discussion in this thread, but let's stick to addressing the OP ^ ^ ^ , please. Thanks!
Jeez...
Now when I think about it, about the list of mentioned above nations...well.. it looks practically as an identical list of the countries that ended up under Stalin's boot; whichever of these nations were within his reach at least.
Wow.
Never thought about that one before.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
There was a huge movement in Germany in the early decades of the 20th century to revive aspects of pre-Christian Germanic spirituality. Hitler, apparently, thought those people were fools, but he was willing to refashion any tool in his Nationalist tool-box to his own ends.

Despite the wealth of pre-Christian symbols he twisted, Hitler's philosophy was instructed more by quasi Roman imperial values and a psuedo-scientific racial theory, not heathen Germanic values. The foundational myths of the Germanic lore are all about unrelated tribes and even species (giants and proto-humans) intermarrying and mating. Not exactly the fount for a racial-isolationist philosophy.

I don't think that Hitler has a religious bone in his body, Christian, Islamic, Pagan, or otherwise.

The foundation of the NSDAP was the Thule Society and a wide array of esoterical mouvements existing in Germany during the Weimar Republic. Esoterism, and the NSDAP was pure esoterism, a by.product of the decomposition of political ideologies (Foucalt explains it in a marvelous manner).

Esoterics are indeed religious under the effect of abuse of substances, generall people wth no formal instruction that follow hyperomantic chivalry books. It was in fact a rebuke of enlighment and a return to the middle ages, NSDAO was essentially medieval. If we look at he definiton of Facism, we read that it is the intromission of the Army in politics supported by the middle class, the "bourgeois". German "bourgeoisy" and Industrialists were the main responsible.

So returning to the question as to what nation helped Germans exterminate Jews, the question is very difficult since occupied territories have no voice. As to countries that helped Jews, even considered that they were occupied countries, the examples of Danemark, Holland and Italy stand out.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:30 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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It is true that most of the early Nazi sympathizers and organizers were members of the Thule Society, and Hitler reorganized it to form the NSDAP since its membership was the core of support for his policies and philosophy.

What I dispute was that the Thule Society had anything to do with pre-Christian Germanic religion, beliefs, philosophy, or society apart from sharing some symbols such as the swastika and the runic alphabet.

A group within the Thule society was obsessed with esoteric ceremonial mysticism from the Middle-East, including, ironically, the Hermetic Qabalah, as well as the Egyptian book of the Dead, and the writings of Christian mystics, then appended the 'Aryan racial theory' to it. For an organization that praised the value of Germanic culture, their dearth of interest in actual Germanic and Nordic sources of spirittuality and pre-Christian Germanic society is startling.

Throwing around some swastikas and runes does not reconstruct an ancient society that, as envisioned by the Nazis, never even existed in the first place.

Furthermore, interest in the occult was only a small part of the activities of a minority within the Thule Society. Their main mission was to explicate the origins of what they considered to be a genetically pure source for the German 'race' which is to say, the Aryan racial theory.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
There was a huge movement in Germany in the early decades of the 20th century to revive aspects of pre-Christian Germanic spirituality. Hitler, apparently, thought those people were fools, but he was willing to refashion any tool in his Nationalist tool-box to his own ends.

Despite the wealth of pre-Christian symbols he twisted, Hitler's philosophy was instructed more by quasi Roman imperial values and a psuedo-scientific racial theory, not heathen Germanic values. The foundational myths of the Germanic lore are all about unrelated tribes and even species (giants and proto-humans) intermarrying and mating. Not exactly the fount for a racial-isolationist philosophy.

I don't think that Hitler has a religious bone in his body, Christian, Islamic, Pagan, or otherwise.
In those places which represented his personal power, he especially favored Roman symbols, since his vision was the new Roman empire. The staff carried by elite units was the Roman Eagle, which represented the power base of Rome as well. The odd pagan/germanic/mythological religon which develeped around the Nazi heirarchy was not so much the creation of Hitler as of others of his first believers. Much of the aura of the SS was envisioned in these terms. I wish I could remember who it was that was the cheif designer of this but can't.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
In those places which represented his personal power, he especially favored Roman symbols, since his vision was the new Roman empire. The staff carried by elite units was the Roman Eagle, which represented the power base of Rome as well. The odd pagan/germanic/mythological religon which develeped around the Nazi heirarchy was not so much the creation of Hitler as of others of his first believers. Much of the aura of the SS was envisioned in these terms. I wish I could remember who it was that was the cheif designer of this but can't.
Don't forget that Otto I was crowned a Holy Roman Emperor so impterial Roman eagles are as much a reference to Roman Empire as to the German history and pride.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Don't forget that Otto I was crowned a Holy Roman Emperor so impterial Roman eagles are as much a reference to Roman Empire as to the German history and pride.
Yes, the "First Reich" was the Holy Roman Empire. The "Second" was the united German Empire under the Kaiser. Hitler's Nazi state was to be the third. All three used the eagle as their symbol:

HRE:


Kaiser:


The Nazi one I am sure everyone is familiar with and I don't wish to post one.
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