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Old 09-04-2012, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,769 posts, read 2,135,417 times
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The USA wanted the Tsarist Russian empire out of the way, so it could expand into and exploit Asia.

The US government took an anti-Russia, pro-Japan position.

Roosevelt's Secretary of State, Hay, wanted to encourage Japan to attack Russia.

Russia's 1905 defeat to Japan was the beginning of the end of the Tsarist Russian empire.




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Last edited by king's highway; 09-04-2012 at 12:31 PM..
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
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The USA wanted the Tsarist Russian empire out of the way, so it could expand into and exploit Asia.

The US government took an anti-Russia, pro-Japan position.

Roosevelt's Secretary of State, Hays, " urged Roosevelt to encourage Japan to attack Russia. " *

Russia's 1905 defeat to Japan was the beginning of the end of the Tsarist Russian empire.



* Theodore Roosevelt and the Rise of America to World Power [pg 178]



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Probably the most innteresting thing to come out of that war was the Kwang Tung Army. A Japanese unit supposed to guard the rail line between Mukdan and Port Arthur. It took on a life of it's own.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:17 PM
 
14,781 posts, read 38,619,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
The USA wanted the Tsarist Russian empire out of the way, so it could expand into and exploit Asia.

The US government took an anti-Russia, pro-Japan position.

Roosevelt's Secretary of State, Hay, wanted to encourage Japan to attack Russia.

Russia's 1905 defeat to Japan was the beginning of the end of the Tsarist Russian empire.
That's not exactly what the US wanted. Originally TR was very favorable of Russia bringing "civilization" to China and Russia was a key contributor to the international forces during the Boxer Rebellion. However, afterward Russia continued to reinforce and expand its influence and position in Manchuria which was not looked favorably upon by Britain or the US as it was obvious Russia was setting itself up to dominate trade in China. The fact that Russian interests in Manchuria were running counter to Japanese interests in Korea meant there was an opportunity for the two sides to go to war. The US and Britain wanted this to happen so that the two powers would end up in balance and the US and British positions would be preserved and strengthened. The US and Britain "supported" Japan while France "supported" Russia, all primarily monetarily.

TR's intervention and the peace process began when both Russia and Japan had essentially exhausted their ability to wage war and any continuing hostilities would simply lead to further ruin for both. This was the goal of the US and Britain. Not to "get the Russians out of the way", but to maintain a balance of power that was in the interests of US and Britain.

Is there a general point you were trying to get at, besides the US and Britain essentially used Japan and Russia to further their own positions and interests?
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
TR's intervention and the peace process began when both Russia and Japan had essentially exhausted their ability to wage war and any continuing hostilities would simply lead to further ruin for both. This was the goal of the US and Britain. Not to "get the Russians out of the way", but to maintain a balance of power that was in the interests of US and Britain.
an interesting academic question, is this still the primary foreign policy tactic? and is this what we are really doing in middle east?
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:53 PM
 
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Let me note: This was a very significant event in the rise of Japan/Asia. It was the first major victory in recent centuries for an Asian power over a European power. Everyone expected the Russians to win; they were the European civilization based on (so-called) "superior" Judeo-Christian traditions. Hence, it was a big shock in the international system and led to Japan's recognition as a rising Asian power.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Nashua
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Japan was under British influence and Russia was only involved with the far Northwest of China (between Korea and Mongolia) and apparently had good relations with the Imperial Chinese rulers (and the general Chinese population there)
I have never read about the U.S. wanting to "exploit" Asia. Individual companies struggled to do business in Asian countries under European control (Britain would not allow US products into India) but the U.S. Govt. refused to get involved.
Anyway, the U.S. had good relations with Imperial Russia. Roosevelt moderated the peace treaty to try to allow Russia a graceful exit. Of course China was in the middle as a very weak nation and the Russo-Japanese war was really about China and driving the Russians away from North East China. They came back in 1945 with a vengeance declaring war on Japan AFTER the Atomic bomb was dropped and swarming down halfway into Korea!
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Old 10-14-2012, 12:26 AM
 
369 posts, read 868,264 times
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Let me just clarify:

Japan was not under the influence of any Western power at that time; as soon as she profited from the war with China in 1895, she was pressurized by Russia, France and Germany to return some of these territorial gains to China.

Being deemed as still relatively weak to the European powers, Japan relented and this humiliating situation made the Japanese bent on revenge on the Russians. So the Japanese expanded their military conscription and strength by investing a substantial amount of money into the military. Their hard work paid off when they miraculously crushed the Russian naval fleet at Tsushima in 1905.

The Russians were ill-prepared for the naval battle because 1) they made a huge detour across the world and eventually could not avoid the onslaught from their Japanese foes and 2) they were complacent thinking that the Japanese fleet would be no match for them.
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Old 10-14-2012, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
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One side issue of this is that the Japanese felt they had gotten a raw deal from the peace brokered by Teddy Roosevelt. They considered that TR had favored Russia, and that they (the Japanese) should have gotten better terms because they were, after all, the victors. I would be interested to hear from knowledgeable posters whether you think the Japanese were justified in their feelings (from an objective, dispassionate point of view).

In any case this seemed to be the beginning of a certain resentment against the United States which was probably one factor, even if a small one, eventually resulting in the attack of December 7, 1941.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
One side issue of this is that the Japanese felt they had gotten a raw deal from the peace brokered by Teddy Roosevelt. They considered that TR had favored Russia, and that they (the Japanese) should have gotten better terms because they were, after all, the victors. I would be interested to hear from knowledgeable posters whether you think the Japanese were justified in their feelings (from an objective, dispassionate point of view).

In any case this seemed to be the beginning of a certain resentment against the United States which was probably one factor, even if a small one, eventually resulting in the attack of December 7, 1941.
They were and they weren't. The US was very much about maintaining the status quo and brought the realization to the table that both sides were on the verge of collapse. The Japanese had won the battles, but they had virtually exhausted their ability to wage war. The Russians had the resources to continue to fight, but were facing revolution and a financial crisis at home. It was ultimately in the best interest of both sides to end the war.

The US had nominally supported Japan throughout the war, but flipped during the negotiations and supported the Russian argument to free them from paying indemnity's which the Russians were not really in a position to do. The Japanese did however gain all of the territorial demands they had. The realization that the Japanese gained from this process was that they still weren't seen as an equal to the European nations and that the US had far more interest in Asian affairs then they pretended to. I wouldn't say the feelings led to anti-US sentiment or resentment though. More of a realization of where they were viewed and exactly where the interests of the US were.
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