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Old 09-14-2012, 07:23 PM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,067,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noworneveragain View Post
Coerced labor does not by itself equal slavery. Slavery involves actual possession of the slave who becomes property stripped of any human rights.
That's some really old definition of slavery.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:46 PM
 
264 posts, read 266,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
That's some really old definition of slavery.
You have a better one?
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgoldie View Post
I always found it interesting that blacks were attracted to the muslim religion when muslims were big slavers, and still are.
That all seems to come from black-Americans who were exposed to the Moorish Science Temple and then the Nation Of Islam. Both of these groups came with the view that Islam was "the black man's true religion" and many blacks bought into it because they really weren't familiar with their African ancestor's actual religions because African religious customs didn't survive among black-Americans like they did with blacks in Haiti,Cuba and Brazil. This had much to do with the types of slave masters we had in the U.S vs those in Latin America. Catholic slave masters from France,Spain and Portugal were more tolerant of slaves keeping African customs plus African deities could be disgiused with catholic saints unlike what could be done under English Protestant slave masters who were less tolerant of their slaves African customs.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:39 PM
 
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I want to clarify this thing that Africans sold their own people into slavery.

This didn't happen because Africans mainly sold people from rival tribes into slavery and not people from their own tribal group. That would only depopulate their tribe. Africans back then weren't viewing all Africans as their own people just because they were all Africans. There were tribal distinctions. It's like how Germans and French people don't view themselves as the same people just because they're both Europeans,same with African tribal groups.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noworneveragain View Post
You have a better one?
Unfree labour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfree labour (or unfree labor in American English) is a generic or collective term for those work relations, especially in modern or early modern history, in which people are employed against their will by the threat of destitution, detention, violence (including death), lawful compulsion,[1] or other extreme hardship to themselves or to members of their families.

If payment occurs, it may be in one or more of the following forms:
  • The payment does not exceed subsistence or barely exceeds it;
  • The payment is in goods which are not desirable and/or cannot be exchanged or are difficult to exchange; or
  • The payment wholly or mostly consists of cancellation of a debt or liability that was itself coerced, or belongs to someone else.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:37 AM
 
264 posts, read 266,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
Unfree labour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfree labour (or unfree labor in American English) is a generic or collective term for those work relations, especially in modern or early modern history, in which people are employed against their will by the threat of destitution, detention, violence (including death), lawful compulsion,[1] or other extreme hardship to themselves or to members of their families.

If payment occurs, it may be in one or more of the following forms:
  • The payment does not exceed subsistence or barely exceeds it;
  • The payment is in goods which are not desirable and/or cannot be exchanged or are difficult to exchange; or
  • The payment wholly or mostly consists of cancellation of a debt or liability that was itself coerced, or belongs to someone else.
We are talkibg about slavery and you provide a definitiin of unfree labor??? Stick to the topic:

Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and areforced to work. [1] Slaves can be held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to demand compensation. Historically, slavery was institutionally recognized by many societies; in more recent times slavery has been outlawed in most societies but continues through the practices of debt bondage, indentured servitude, serfdom, domestic servants kept in captivity, certain adoptions in which children are forced to work as slaves, child soldiers, and forced marriage. [2]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
9,290 posts, read 14,905,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I want to clarify this thing that Africans sold their own people into slavery.

This didn't happen because Africans mainly sold people from rival tribes into slavery and not people from their own tribal group. That would only depopulate their tribe. Africans back then weren't viewing all Africans as their own people just because they were all Africans. There were tribal distinctions. It's like how Germans and French people don't view themselves as the same people just because they're both Europeans,same with African tribal groups.
When people say "their own people", they mean Africans sold Africans to Arabs, Portuguese, Europeans, etc. It was still blacks selling blacks no matter whose tribe they belonged to.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:06 AM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,067,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noworneveragain View Post
We are talkibg about slavery and you provide a definitiin of unfree labor???
Forced labor occurs when an individual is forced to work against his or her will, under threat of violence or other punishment, with restrictions on their freedom.[7] It is also used to describe all types of slavery.

So, some people don't hesitate calling it slavery.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,360,856 times
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According to Paul Johnson, slavery had been eradicated in Europe by around 1000 AD. Around the 15th century, Portuguese explorers established sugar plantations on islands off the West coast of Africa. Sugar is labor-intensive. There was an existing slave trade in Africa that was run by Muslims. The Portuguese tapped into this existing market to supply labor for their sugar plantations, and the Euro slave trade took off from there, concurrent w/ exploration of the New World.

A History of the American People - Paul Johnson - Google Books
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:25 PM
 
264 posts, read 266,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russiaonline View Post
Forced labor occurs when an individual is forced to work against his or her will, under threat of violence or other punishment, with restrictions on their freedom.[7] It is also used to describe all types of slavery.

So, some people don't hesitate calling it slavery.
No. Unfree labor is much broader term which includes slavery, indentured labor, prison labor and others.
Definition of slavery can be found here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery
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