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Old 09-19-2012, 06:29 PM
 
Location: USA
30,458 posts, read 21,652,521 times
Reputation: 18765

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Quite so. After the Civil War the Union Army assumed responsibility for warfare on the southern plains and the Rangers were mostly relagated to a law enforcement role. As noted, the Army never had the success that the Rangers did. Even during their heyday, as good as the Rangers were, they wisely used Indian scouts, with Lipan Apaches and Tonkawas often eagar to join in the fight against their hated enemy, the Comanches.
Yep^^^.

For what ever reason many people like to make blanket statements that paint all several hundred or even thousand Native Americans tribes of having the exact same cultures. You can just as well say that Muslim, Christians and Buhddist are the same?
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Western Colorado
12,858 posts, read 16,772,678 times
Reputation: 33500
The American Indian tribes had always warred with one another. Would they have lost out? Yes because of the Europeans sheer numbers and the policies at the time. I wonder at times what would have happened if Squanto would have not helped the Pilgrims and let them die off.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:20 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,903,269 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
They were too busy warring and killing each other to beat the western expanding USA. Even if they didn't war with each other, they still didn't have the proper weapons to put up a resistance for very long.
Your argument assumes that the op's premiss is based upon the 19th century and not the 16th.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,648,605 times
Reputation: 10453
Once the Americans defeated the more formidable, numerous and better organized Indians of the Old Northwest in the Northwest Indian War and War of 1812 the remaining unwhipped Indians were no more than a nuisance in the great scheme of things; Little Turtle, Blue Jacket and Tecumseh, with their British backing, were the last Indians with any real possibility of a military and political solution to American aggression. Hell, maybe Powhatan or King Philip was the last Indian who really had a chance against the Euros.

But once The United States decided to put paid to the western tribes after the Civil War it took less than 30 years to do so and even that was a half assed effort done with few troops and resources. It took the Euros and Americans from 1565 to around 1840 to conquer the present United States from the Atlantic to the Mississippi and only another 50 years to conquer between the Mississippi and Pacific.

Note that the last fight the United States regular Army had with Indians wasn't with western Indians but with Chippewas in Minnesota in 1898.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,219,148 times
Reputation: 6242
All indigenous tribes fall to State societies. It's inevitable; the power of the State and its standing armies are too much to resist, unless you are buried in a place too environmentally hostile and difficult to settle (like a rainforest).
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:52 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,903,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
All indigenous tribes fall to State societies. It's inevitable; the power of the State and its standing armies are too much to resist, unless you are buried in a place too environmentally hostile and difficult to settle (like a rainforest).
Huh? That sound sort of sophisticated until you beg the question, what is a state society and how does it differ from a so-called indigenous tribe nor does it take into consideration how "state societies" were decimated by tribal ones.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,648,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Huh? That sound sort of sophisticated until you beg the question, what is a state society and how does it differ from a so-called indigenous tribe nor does it take into consideration how "state societies" were decimated by tribal ones.
Raise the question, not beg it.

A state society is one with large towns or cities, a large population and centralized government that goes beyond family, clan or tribal organization. It raises money by taxation and has the divisions of class and labor that make armies, rather than mere war bands, possible. It's evident from a study of history that though tribal societies sometimes inflict initial defeats on state societies very few have withstood them.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:17 AM
 
7,492 posts, read 11,776,280 times
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Europeans would've conquered the country, it was just a matter of who during the French and Indian War.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:50 AM
 
28,896 posts, read 53,944,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Up until the time the US Cavalry hired Indian scouts they had lost every single engagement they ever had with the Indians...

EVERY SINGLE ONE

As far as "they still didn't have the proper weapons" stop and think for a minute....

You don't think the Indians were confiscating the weapons from the dead soldiers and were smart enough to use them?
The minute the Gatling gun came into general use, it would have been over.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,971,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
The minute the Gatling gun came into general use, it would have been over.
A weapon designed for use against massed troops did not have much utility when the enemy was nomadic, mobile and refused to group up into convenient formations to receive automatic weapons fire.

The Gatling Gun was portable, but only to the degree that an artillery piece was portable. It had to be mounted on a wheeled carriage, limiting the places where it could go and severely limiting the places it could go quickly.

It is known that Custer was offered the use of two Gatling guns and he declined. Those who do not know any better often claim that this was a fatal decision on Custer's part, but that is not the case. The Gatling gun had no application in a cavalry charge, which was the planned tactic against the immense village on the Little Bighorn River. The guns would have become useful only in the final stage when Reno and Benteen were besieged on their hill, but since they survived without a Gatling gun, it cannot be said that the presence of such guns would have altered any outcomes.
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