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60 SEALS can't carry 50,000 rounds of ammo, and warriors at that time were trained to stay in formation no matter what happened to the guy next to him. I just don't see the legion falling to their knees like frightened children, begging Jupiter for protection when bullets started flying.
Besides, such an incident actually DID happen (more or less) in in history. It took 180 men for Pizarro to defeat the Inca empire so you'd need at least 100 SEALS (maybe 200) to do the same to the Roman Empire.
Then again, if you used Rangers you could do it with just 5 men, wearing only their underwear and armed with dull bayonets, making it much more cost effective and bad-assed to boot!
Good point about that supply line. Even if the time jump included a supply it runs out and when your moving you can't keep going back to resupply a distance away. And you have no backup system to bring it... unless you had first dealt with the enemy of Rome and promised to help eliminate their enemy. Of course also intending to eliminate them too...
Even then if you get one shipment and your allies figure out how to use them and don't need you anymore....
As I said in another post, later Legions, near the end, were largely locals guarding a border. Their uniforms/armor had gone way downhill and so had the discipline. A few mystery mortor and rifle might have disrupted them. The early legions, they'd stand til they died.
The Inca's are a good example actually. They were the Rome of their area, and had subdued everyone in their path, frequently killing anyone in the way. They were hated. One of the reasons the Spanish won was that the locals who hated the Inkas were more than happy to march with them and help. Pizzarro then of course betrayed them.
Rangers would need a supply line to, of course....
I'd be interested if you could cite one historical incident of the Roman army running due to superstition.
For me already answered, but I will add - the Roman soldiers were very disciplined, but only compared with savages and barbarians and they couldn't resist something supernatural. And it not their wine. Soldiers WWI ran up at the sight of tanks, and soldiers WWII had horror at sounds Ju-87, and people of the 20th cent. aren't so ignorant and religious.
The Zulus had some guns. And the technological gap was not as wide
True enough but the point still stands.
[/quote]What is the range of a bow and arrow compared to a high powered rifle? And if the Seals used some type of incendiary device (i.e., napalm), wouldn't that pretty much end the battle right there? With a few cannons, they could just shell a bunch of incendiaries into the Roman ranks and burn them all to pieces.[/quote]
Rifles require line of sight, 10,000 archers behind a ridge don't.
Roman's were not unfamiliar with incendiaries, they used them themselves.
White phosphorous yes, napalm, how are you going to deliver it?
Cannons, so now we have expanded the scenario to include artillery, arial and naval support.
The senario is 60 SEALS, that limits their weapons to those that they can carry or mount to light vehicles. Your battle plan depends entirely upon Romans be scared out of their wits like some 1930's jungle movie. You still haven't addressed the fact that even with some weapons, there is only so much ammunition even a 60 man SEAL team can carry against an Army that deployed 10's of thousands to millions of soldiers.
Rifles require line of sight, 10,000 archers behind a ridge don't.
Neither does mortar fire. Advatage SEALS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
Roman's were not unfamiliar with incendiaries, they used them themselves.
A catapult does not have the range or accuracy of cannon fire. Advantage SEALS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
Cannons, so now we have expanded the scenario to include artillery, arial and naval support.
It's "aerial" support. And no, I never expanded the scenario to include air and naval support. It's not unreasonable for a force of 60 men to have a few cannons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
The senario is 60 SEALS, that limits their weapons to those that they can carry or mount to light vehicles. Your battle plan depends entirely upon Romans be scared out of their wits like some 1930's jungle movie. You still haven't addressed the fact that even with some weapons, there is only so much ammunition even a 60 man SEAL team can carry against an Army that deployed 10's of thousands to millions of soldiers.
Who said they would be carrying the weaponry? I never defined the terms of engagement. It could very well be the case that the SEALS have their own garrison replete with huge ammunition stock piles.
No. Not possible if they both had equivalent weapons. Give me a break. These guys are great warriors, but they're not super heroes.
But that's not the point. If you pit SEALs against Roman soldiers in this uber-hyber-incredibly-stupid scenario, then the SEALs get to use the weapons and tactics they know. I mean, jeez, you could hand the most well-trained soldier on the planet a short sword and he would bumble around with the thing with far less skill than the average centurion. Likewise, hand some Roman soldiers a mortar and expect him to master it in an hour or so and he would likely blow up his centuria.
Once the Romans captured some SEALS with their weapons it would be all over but the screaming. If a group of modern warriors got trapped in a time bubble and landed in Rome during the Imperium they could survive very well by showing how to make and use their weapons. If one was lucky enough to meet Caesar in Cleo's court and warn him about the Ides of March assignation the soldier would do very well indeed.
Remember the Romans were just a smart as us but did not have another 2,000 years experience developing more efficient ways of killing each other.
Once the Romans captured some SEALS with their weapons it would be all over but the screaming. If a group of modern warriors got trapped in a time bubble and landed in Rome during the Imperium they could survive very well by showing how to make and use their weapons. If one was lucky enough to meet Caesar in Cleo's court and warn him about the Ides of March assignation the soldier would do very well indeed.
Remember the Romans were just a smart as us but did not have another 2,000 years experience developing more efficient ways of killing each other.
How would they capture them? Are they going to march through mortar fire, bullets and RPGs?
If Romans suspect that against them people with the strong weapon, but only people, instead of Gods, they will change the tactics. For example where should there is a camp of seals? In the wood or caves. But in the wood and other similar places advantage of the modern weapon is leveled, seals lose advantage and Romans press them by masses. Therefore the main weapon of seals - terror, diversions, sabotage, but the weapon should be used only for effective self-defense.
If Romans suspect that against them people with the strong weapon, but only people, instead of Gods, they will change the tactics. For example where should there is a camp of seals? In the wood or caves. But in the wood and other similar places advantage of the modern weapon is leveled, seals lose advantage and Romans press them by masses. Therefore the main weapon of seals - terror, diversions, sabotage, but the weapon should be used only for effective self-defense.
The Seals could take out their heavy cavalry in a matter of minutes. The rest of their horses would run off and then they'd be stranded. Then the Seals would pump round after round into them. Then the rest would run away.
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