is it or is not very possible that the Ancient Chinese Discovered the New World First after natives (DNA, Spain)
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Polynesians almost certainly made it to the South American continent. We know for a fact that they made it to Easter Island, Hawaii, and that pre-European temporary settlers made it to the Galapagos (though the direction of their travel is uncertain). Even very remote islands like Pitcairn had evidence of previous settlement. It seems improbable that Polynesians made it more than 2/3rds of the way across the Pacific from the eastern islands of the south seas to Easter Island, but not any further.
Well yes and perhaps not quite. The Clovis is a evolving story that really needs a closer look. When I was a kid going to school, what I learned about the Clovis people was they were early settlers whose site was discovered in Clovis New Mexico. The date of these people go way back 11,000-13,000 years. In the last 40 years or so newly discovered Clovis sites indicate the Clovis originated on the east-coast of the US, primarily around the DC, NOVA, Chesapeake and the Delmarva areas. Recent Clovis points were discovered on the new Wilson Bridge construction site just outside of DC. The sites on the east-coast are older than the site in New Mexico. No Clovis sites have ever been located near Alaska.
What is interesting about their artifacts are the spear points. They do not resemble other American Indian points nor do they resemble asian and or Siberian points. They resemble spear points from Europe, primarily from the French and Spanish region from 10,000-20,000 years ago.
Actually you really need to read more authoritative texts and only use Wiki as a guide for futher reading.
Iceland is a 3 day transit from Norway or the northern islands in the British archipelago via longship . Iceland to Greenland. Greenland to North America proper.
Requirements to sail a long boat vs that monster junk you posted would not be the same. If you read any of the accounts of modern reconstruction of long ships you would know they are quite easy to move along with the slightest wind. Design is still used in Portugal for the open boats that would sail to the Grand Banks and back.
I will go ahead and try to read more, about both the chinese junk, and viking longship. Actually I did not read anything before making this post. I was just staring at a globe LOLZ. I noticed all the little islands going from Japan to the Aleutians.
There are a lot of areas where its suspected that native peoples with the ability to build a good ship found the American continents actually. Many have some support. We often don't realize how good some of the early cultures living near the sea were as sailors. Some may have been purely accidental contacts, but if there were more voyages after, its significant.
I find the Clovis people one of the most interesting since they were so early on and could have continued to travel the ice road quite easily for some time, making an actual colonization possible.
But what stands out when looking at all the possible 'discoverers' is that so long as they didn't know it was there, for each it was a discovery. Thus, in essense, they all discovered it. Which is hardly surprising given that two large continents were just sitting there mid ocean.
I think the multiple possibilities are above all else a tribute to human inguinity and resoursefullness, especially given how ancient some may have been. We like to think of our technology as our best tools, but in reality its the brain that made it, and allowed amazing feats way long before anything resembling our level was in existance.
There are a lot of areas where its suspected that native peoples with the ability to build a good ship found the American continents actually. Many have some support. We often don't realize how good some of the early cultures living near the sea were as sailors. Some may have been purely accidental contacts, but if there were more voyages after, its significant.
I find the Clovis people one of the most interesting since they were so early on and could have continued to travel the ice road quite easily for some time, making an actual colonization possible.
But what stands out when looking at all the possible 'discoverers' is that so long as they didn't know it was there, for each it was a discovery. Thus, in essense, they all discovered it. Which is hardly surprising given that two large continents were just sitting there mid ocean.
I think the multiple possibilities are above all else a tribute to human inguinity and resoursefullness, especially given how ancient some may have been. We like to think of our technology as our best tools, but in reality its the brain that made it, and allowed amazing feats way long before anything resembling our level was in existance.
I realize this post is old. I learned the other day that on the east coast of Florida a mass grave of some 160 people have been found in a bog. It appears these people are 10s of thousands of years old. It is said the remains are intact and the rumor is the DNA is european. When the authorities are confronted the DNA is Asian. No talked of the spear points but again rumor says they are Clovis.
At the Smithsonian Institute there are clovis points found in Southern Virginia that are over 20,000 years old. The kicker is geologist know where the quartz is from, Spain and that is a fact, not rumor.
No they did not. The Chinese never developed the technology to navigate in open seas. They build the huge ships which needed big resupply of provisions during voyages, but it doesn't matter if all you can do is hug the coasts with those ships and sail into known and developed ports along the way. The furtherst the Chinese gotten by themselves was the East African coast near Somalia during the early 15th century, but that was accomplished by hugging the coast with a map/prior knowledge from Muslim/Indian Western merchants. The Chinese never even discovered Kamchatka peninsula or even the Japanese island of Hokkaido.
I would be very surprised if the Chinese didn't know about Hokkaido at least by the middle ages. They knew about and had subjugated Sakhalin at least since and least mongol era and the Japanese had known about Hokkaido since the 700s.
The title of the thread states "after natives" and the opening paragraph reads:
so I do not see the justice of your above complaint.
While the subject is before us, that the people the Europeans called Indians were immigrants from Asia, is why I've never been happy with the term "native Americans." That is not accurate, America has no natives, everyone is descended from immigrants.
The Indians could be "first immigrants" or "primary immigrants", but they are no more native to the place than anyone else.
Truly, there is no such thing as any native. Every race or ethnicity came from somewhere before. problem is, official history is very (maybe purposefully, maybe not) short sighted and refuses to go back more than 20 or so thousand years, despite crying out loud proofs to humanity being much much much longer around. But if you look from that perspective, everyone came from somewhere. Continent Moo, or Pangea, or Gondwana, or Hyperborea.
I would be very surprised if the Chinese didn't know about Hokkaido at least by the middle ages. They knew about and had subjugated Sakhalin at least since and least mongol era and the Japanese had known about Hokkaido since the 700s.
Exactly, and if you look at the map, there is Kuril Islands right next to it and then Kamchatka, and then the Aleutians. On a sunny day, I think you can see everything with just a telescope.
The technology needed to cross open seas and leave permanent colonies is not all that high or advanced as the settlement of the Pacific islands by the Micronesians and the Melanesians shows . However, what is absolutely necessary is the will to do it. If you are a self satisfied self sucifficent culture who looks inward. Has a mentality that divides the world into us and them and builds walls to keep them and their strange ways out. Or you view yourself as execptional and see no need or value in going beyond your boundaries then you might very well turn your back on the rest of the world and not explore because it makes no sense to you or is simply too costly. I think this case can be made for not only 1st Century Rome or Han and Ming China but in later times 20th century Britain and 21st Century America.
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