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According to William Marvel Chamberlain's salute at Appomattox never happened and he invented the incident to make himself look noble and important, something he not not shy about doing.
How does Marvel explain the fact that the incident also appears in the post war memoirs of the man who received and returned that salute? According to General John Gordon...
Quote:
Some of the scenes on the field, immediately after the cessation of hostilities and prior to the formal surrender, illustrate the same magnanimous spirit, and were peculiarly impressive and thrilling. As my command, in worn-out shoes and ragged uniforms, but with proud mien, moved to the designated point to stack their arms and surrender their cherished battle-flags, they challenged the admiration of the brave victors. One of the knightliest soldiers of the Federal army, General Joshua L. Chamberlain of Maine, who afterward served with distinction as governor of his State, called his troops into line, and as my men marched in front of them, the veterans in blue gave a soldierly salute to those vanquished heroes--a token of respect from Americans to Americans, a final and fitting tribute from Northern to Southern chivalry.
Further, Gordon was so taken with Chamberlain's account of the ceremony that he followed the above paragraph with a reprinting of Chamberlain's description. Would Gordon have replicated and included such an account if it was not true?
How does Marvel explain the fact that the incident also appears in the post war memoirs of the man who received and returned that salute? According to General John Gordon...
Marvel thinks Gordon was as self centeredly romantic as Chamberlain and disposed to support Chamberlain's story as it also makes Gordon look good.
Given Gordon's post war career I don't find it difficult to believe he'd lie.
How does Marvel explain the fact that the incident also appears in the post war memoirs of the man who received and returned that salute? According to General John Gordon...
Further, Gordon was so taken with Chamberlain's account of the ceremony that he followed the above paragraph with a reprinting of Chamberlain's description. Would Gordon have replicated and included such an account if it was not true?
Good post, Grandstander, and I think it is a bit far fetched to think that two generals on opposite sides would respond to one another without a great deal of mutual respect. It presupposes (1) that both are liars, (2) goes against the thought that a southerner might want to "show" up a northern general by calling him out about something that was not true, and (3) doesn't really mesh with the fact that Chamberlain denied receiving Lee's sword, something that an egotist would be unlikely to do.
And I'm pretty sure there are other instances of "chivalry" in the War Between the States at every rank, not just generals.
Another reason to doubt Marvel is the inconsistency of his claim of self aggrandizing against both Chamberlain and Gordon. If these men had such character, would it not have shown itself again and again?
For instance:
It is often claimed that he was a lieutenant general, but Gordon himself is silent on the matter in his Reminiscences of the Civil War in which he recounts each of his other promotions. He went on to a distinguished career in politics, serving as governor and senator and was active in veterans' affairs.
The lack of his contemporaries criticizing either man for being liars or self-promoters (as is generally accepted about McClellan) seems to speak for itself.
Another reason to doubt Marvel is the inconsistency of his claim of self aggrandizing against both Chamberlain and Gordon. If these men had such character, would it not have shown itself again and again?
I think that Gordon's political career speaks against his character.
In that you raised Marvel's views and presented them here, leading us to conclude that you are familiar with his writing on this subject, isn't it up to you to explain rather than hand out reading assignments?
We have two accounts of an incident which are congruent with one another. The incident itself is not something which suffers from being some sort of outlandish claim. To believe that this salute took place requires no stretching of possibilities, it was certainly an age which featured many who were caught up in the romance and chivalry associated with war.
So, if we are to accept that both of these generals are self promoting liars, we have to believe that they were willing to lie about something in print, which could have easily been contradicted by any of the thousands of eye witnesses and participants.
Thus, what would constitute good evidence that Chamberlain and Gordon were lying, would be accounts from others who were there which state that there was no salute.
I asked you if Marvel presented any such evidence....and you tell me I have to read the book to find out.
Which makes me suspect that perhaps you have not read the book and were passing on an opinion you had not subjected to examination.
Which makes me suspect that perhaps you have not read the book and were passing on an opinion you had not subjected to examination.
You think me a liar? When did you stop beating your wife?
I mentioned Marvel's views because they are on topic and of interest and go against the grain. Some might find them stimulating and worthy of looking into. I'm not interested in defending Marvel or repeating in detail his arguments. You may investigate them or not as you please.
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nice post
